Aug. 18, 2021

Busting the Calorie Myth and Helping You Eat, Think, and Live Better with Jonathan Bailor

Busting the Calorie Myth and Helping You Eat, Think, and Live Better with Jonathan Bailor

Our guest is Jonathan Bailor. He is the founder of Wellness Engineering and the world’s fastest-growing permanent weight loss and diabesity treatment company SANESolution.

KETO, South Beach, Atkins, Paleo, Mediterranean, vegan, vegetarian…figuring out which diet is right for you is enough to drive you insane. You’ve likely tried 1 or more of them with varying results.

Our guest this week says all of them have some aspects that will work for some people but not others...and that all of them are often missing a key ingredient that could help you achieve your fitness goals while remaining sane.

We are joined by Jonathan Bailor. He is the creator and host of the new film “Better.” 

In this episode, he shares how personal tragedy led him to dedicate his life to finding a better way to eat, think, and live, and one that reverses the causes and symptoms of top risk factors for COVID complications and death: Diabetes and obesity or has he calls it "DIABESITY."

In this episode you’ll learn:

  • Why calorie counting doesn’t work
  • What most diets get wrong
  • Simple ways to improve your diet
  • What your body weight set point is
  • Why “diabesity” is one of the greatest medical health crises the world has ever faced.

Links mentioned in the show:

InsideTracker - 25% OFF!

Better Movie

Athletic Brewing Company



This transcript was written by robots. Please forgive any errors.

[00:00:00] Zach: When you do what you love, like yoga, CrossFit, and lifting heavy things. You want to do it for life inside. Tracker can help. Inside tracker was founded in 2009 by leading scientists and aging, genetics and biometrics inside 

[00:00:13] Jonathan: tracker analyzes your body's data to provide you with a clear picture 

[00:00:17] Zach: of what's going on inside you and to offer you science backed recommendations for positive diet and lifestyle changes.

[00:00:23] Then inside tracker record your progress every day, every step of the way towards reaching your performance goals and living a longer healthier. For a limited time, you can get 25% off the entire inside tracker store. Just go to inside MES, or visit the link on our website, the

[00:00:42] Jonathan: This is the fit mess conversations with world-class experts in the fields of mental, physical, and emotional health. And this episode, if I die on my tombstone, he's like the average person now eats one more serving of green vegetables per day. I will have done my. Now, here are your hosts, Zach and Jeremy 

[00:01:01] Jeremy: Quito, south beach Atkins, paleo Mediterranean, vegan, vegetarian, figuring out which diet is right for you is enough to drive you insane.

[00:01:10] You've likely tried one or more of them with varying results. Our guest this week says all of them have some aspects that will work for some people, but not others. And that all of them are often missing a key. That could help you achieve your fitness goals while remaining sane. We're joined today by Jonathan Baylor.

[00:01:27] He is a creator and host of the film better in the film. And in today's episode, he shares how personal tragedy led him to dedicate his life, to finding a better way to eat, think, and live. And one that reverses the causes and symptoms of top risk factors for COVID complications and death, diabetes, and obesity, or as he calls it.

[00:01:46] Diabesity we'll talk about, and just a few minutes, but Zach, a few weeks ago, you hinted at threatened to switch to a transition to a plant-based diet, trying to get your diet cleaned up, get things in order, take better care of your body. All the things I got to imagine it's going swimmingly. 

[00:02:05] Jonathan: It's not going great.

[00:02:06] No, I'll say 

[00:02:07] Zach: no, it's not. It's really not. I think I've said it before. I am a stress eater. I, when I'm stressed out, I eat and the last few weeks have been 

[00:02:18] Jeremy: particularly, we've documented that with the 10:00 AM potato chips, the they'll stocking up on the m&ms at the MnMs. 

[00:02:27] Zach: Yes. Well, and there's been a whole bunch of other things that have happened too.

[00:02:30] Part of the stress was the fact that my mother's Memorial was this last weekend. Right. And a bunch of family was in town. So we went out to eat and we all enjoyed massive quantities of food to drown our sorrow. And he knows wonderful. But at the same time, like three, four weeks ago, I was like, okay, I need to do this.

[00:02:51] For a lot of reasons for better health for my, my cholesterol is actually pretty high at this point in time. So I need to get that down and I'm not going to take a medication unless I absolutely have to. So diets the way I got to go. But the last three 

[00:03:05] Jeremy: weeks have just been terrible high cholesterol. Is this just based on your home science kit or is the doctor like, Hey Billy, get it under control.

[00:03:13] Jonathan: Oh 

[00:03:14] Zach: no, this is all from the doctor. And I've seen the numbers and yeah. Done my own research. And I've been working with her for about six months now on the numbers, but my cholesterol has been high for a couple of years now. And my half-ass attempts to lower. It have worked to a certain extent, but now it's time to kick it into high gear because high cholesterol for me anyway, is life-threatening in the sense that it will shorten my life.

[00:03:46] I know high cholesterol is not like that for everyone, but for me it will be. So now at this point, I have to decide between whether or not I'm going to continue stress eating, or if I want to die a few years early. 

[00:03:57] Jeremy: I think someone listening to this who has been listening to this for a while, would be surprised to hear that about you, because we talk about how you're going to CrossFit.

[00:04:06] That's going really well. You're getting compliments. Muscle mass seems to be increasing. Pants are fitting a little better. Like it sounds like from, from what we've. At least, at least from a physical appearance standpoint or how you're feeling things are going well. So I think it's surprising. I noticed for me, but for someone who's listening to this who maybe comes to us for advice and thinking like, wow, I never would have guessed.

[00:04:29] Is that, do you think it is just bad diet? Is it stress? Is it all the above? Is it a genetic thing? 

[00:04:35] Zach: No, it's a little bit of a genetic thing. I know. So when I KIDO, I know it gets really bad. A healthy cholesterol level is like 180 to 200 total cholesterol when I'm in full blown ketosis and I'm eating dairy, my cholesterol levels like four 20.

[00:04:52] So like ridiculously high when I'm eating like garbage, it's two 80, which is still really high, but not 400 high. And when I clean up my diet for two to three weeks, it goes down to like two 40. So I know that cleaning up my diet and removing cholesterol from my diet for the most. Brings it 

[00:05:12] Jonathan: down, but can I get it down to a safe level with just diet?

[00:05:19] I 

[00:05:19] Zach: have to question my genetics on that one, because both of my parents had high cholesterol as well. Interesting. And my 

[00:05:25] Jonathan: sister has it. 

[00:05:27] Jeremy: So what kinds of things do you do? You said that you've seen some success from some of the things you're doing and now it's time to get serious about it. What are some of the things that you're doing about it?

[00:05:36] Zach: It's just like removing butter is that are super, I. Can cholesterol eliminating the meat intake. That 

[00:05:42] Jonathan: one 

[00:05:44] Zach: has been a big one, switching to chicken, just eating now, which I love chicken. 

[00:05:49] Jonathan: Yeah, no, just 

[00:05:50] Zach: removing dairy. So anything dairy for me is it's loaded with cholesterol ice cream cake and ice cream anymore because I got totally saturated 

[00:05:59] Jonathan: with it.

[00:06:00] Jeremy: For you. That's like giving up one of your children. Yeah. 

[00:06:03] Zach: Yeah. Or 

[00:06:05] Jonathan: maybe even two. 

[00:06:07] Zach: So, no, it's definitely. So my diet, I can probably get it down to a certain level, but then I'm never going to enjoy food again. Right. It's not a great trade-off. So I'm experimenting with a couple of other things as well, but 

[00:06:19] Jonathan: I did make a promise 

[00:06:20] Zach: to my doctor that if in six months I can't bring this under control myself with diet and lifestyle changes, I will consider taking medication for it just because I don't want it.

[00:06:34] But if I can't do it, if I don't have the ability to do it with diet and lifestyle changes, if it's something genetic that's going to continue to go, whether I eat ice or not, 

[00:06:43] Jeremy: well, I'd rather live a little bit longer. If the options are, take a pill or die, it seems like a pretty easy equation to work out.

[00:06:50] Zach: Yeah. But that is my last resort. 

[00:06:52] Jeremy: I don't want to do it. Yeah, I'm sure. Well, I think you've shown here in this conversation and we've shown over and over again and conversations on this show. Any effort at self-improvement cleaning up your diet, cleaning up your exercise routine, whatever it is always starts with small steps, because if you do try to become perfect overnight, you're probably going to fail.

[00:07:14] It's usually just too big a hill to climb. And it like you're saying, if you had to overnight go, plant-based get rid of the ice cream, get rid of the dairy, get rid of all the things you've eaten your whole life. The frustration of that. I think would force you to fail faster than what you've been doing.

[00:07:32] And so now, as you've seen those little steps are working and that's what our guest this week is talking about in his new movie, it's called better. And his name is Jonathan Baylor. He's the creator and host of the movie. And what I like about this movie in particular there, I mean, there's tons of food, documentaries, and lifestyle, documentaries that you can watch and take all kinds of advice.

[00:07:51] The one, the thing that I liked the most about this one is that it's really basic advice that applies to whatever you're into. So if you're into keto, if you're into veganism, if you're into vegetarian, I want to be a carnival or whatever. The main point is that the higher quality food. The better it's going to be for your body and the better the outcome.

[00:08:13] So I could go on and on and try and explain that their brilliance of his idea, but I'll let him do that. I had a chance to talk to him a few weeks ago about the film better and what got him interested in this as a field of study. That he's now turned into not only a film, but an entire industry. Great job on the movie.

[00:08:30] I want to talk about that in a minute, but first I want to learn a little bit more about you and, and what started you on this path and wanting to share this kind of information with the world. How did you get involved with all this? 

[00:08:40] Jonathan: And I was very young. I had a really tragic experience with my grandfather, which I'm sure we'll talk about more, but from that point on the, the idea of trying to preserve.

[00:08:50] Human suffering was deeply ingrained in my brain. And then I had two college professor parents. So I had a very unique upbringing in that sense and that it was a very academic setting. The first way I've manifested my desire to help people was as a personal trainer. That's the way I paid my way through college was as a person trader at valley total fitness in Columbus, Ohio.

[00:09:09] And while I was doing that, I had a very interesting and life-changing experience with it. When I was growing up, I was pretty good at football, but my challenge was I was too small. So I had a lot of issues and I did a lot of unhealthy things around my body trying to make it larger, which is the opposite of what most people do.

[00:09:30] You know, they have issues around their body and they try to make it smaller. And I got to experience both sides of that. And very specifically, while I was a trainer, I remember distinctly sitting across from one of my classes. And at this time I was taking supplements, which are now illegal. I was eating 6,000 calories a day.

[00:09:50] Like I was doing destructive things in an effort to change my body one way while I was instructing my clients to do destructive things, to change their body. In the other way, my clients were eating 1200 calories a day. One of them came into my office and literally broke down. It's a Jonathan what's wrong.

[00:10:11] And at that time, I started crying as well because I, she essentially embodied the feeling the same feeling that I had. I was like, are you in my head? Cause I'm thinking to myself, what's wrong with me? I can't get bigger. You're thinking to yourself, what's wrong with me? I can't get smaller. Something doesn't add up here.

[00:10:28] How is it? You're a, at this time I was probably 19. Yes. I'm an 18 or 19 year old male. And you are a 40 something year old female, but we're both people. We're both humans. So. That our bodies are behaving so differently that I can literally eat five times more than you exercise less than you can't get bigger and you can't get smaller.

[00:10:50] What's going on? So my parents, then I talked with them. I quit being a person trainer. They said, Jonathan, where are you getting your information from? I wasn't getting my information from where I should be getting my information from. I was getting my information from what's always been done or what the experts say, quote unquote, or what they told me.

[00:11:08] Uh, so my parents said, why don't you go to the source? Why don't you actually do some research? So thanks to their college readiness. I developed some wonderful relationships with folks at Harvard and Johns Hopkins and UCLA and the Cleveland clinic and the Mayo. Spent 10 years of my life digging into like hardcore academic research and ended up coming out the other end, realizing that like unequivocally what I was taught as a personal trainer and what most of us have just accepted as the truth around eating and exercise is not only outdated, but is actually making a sick and committed my life to reversing that.

[00:11:46] And it's led to all sorts of stuff since then. The 

[00:11:50] Jeremy: information you referenced is something that is really only a few decades old. And at the time I think everybody's hearts were in the right place trying to get people to be healthy, but the science was just wrong. And so that creates a lot of conflict.

[00:12:03] Even now, there are people, especially if you follow different fitness and health experts, again, using the air quotes across the internet, there are a million different opinions about which diet, which kind of exercise, how much exercise is. Clearly you have a path that will, that we'll get to, but is there a one size fits all?

[00:12:22] Is there a basic set of rules that most everyone can follow and be successful? 

[00:12:29] Jonathan: The, the best analogy I can come up with is prescription eyewear. So let me tell you what I mean. So if you tell me, Jonathan, my vision is blurry. Can you help? And I take my contacts out of my eyes and I stick them in your eyes.

[00:12:48] They may or may not improve your vision. They might actually make it worse. And then if you said, contacts are a flawed approach to improving vision, that is somewhat true, but not really. My contacts are not bright for you. However, every human eye is the same barring weird genetic issues. The approach of using corrective lenses.

[00:13:11] Is the right approach to correct vision. Now how we apply that prescription, like personalizing that prescription is critical, but there is without a shadow of a doubt, we're all humans. There are common denominators that all of us can use to live better. And that's the film and everything else we do.

[00:13:32] It's it's not giving you a, this is exactly what you eat. This is your exact exercise routine for everybody. But what it does give you. Essentially the framework in which to find your ideal approach based on proven science, practical habits and powerful love. And just at the risk of using too many analogies, I'm somewhat known for my analogy is better or worse is it's a little bit like trying to memorize every possible combination of numbers versus learning algebra.

[00:14:07] It is possible to understand algebra. And once you understand algebra, you can add, subtract, divide, and multiply any set of numbers. You don't need to guess. It doesn't matter. What anyone's opinion is. Once you understand the basic algebra of how your body works, which we know now you can choose the foods that are right for you within a pretty simple framework, and you can choose the exercises that work for you in a pretty simple universal frame.

[00:14:37] So 

[00:14:37] Jeremy: how do we figure that out as, and I don't want to give away too much for the movie, obviously, because there's a lot of good information from that two hour conversation versus this 30 minute conversation as someone who has had a lot of success with keto diets, Atkins, diet, south beach diet. The problem is that I've had to try them all to have success multiple times.

[00:14:55] I do see some similarities in those diets with what your, what you explained in the movie. So give us those sort of one-on-one level of what it is that you're hoping people will take away from your movie and how it's different from these other 

[00:15:08] Jonathan: diets. Isn't that essentially anything other than the standard American diet works is because it will incorporate so.

[00:15:20] But just not all of this universal framework. So to the extent that veganism causes you to not eat spam and processed junk meat, you will be healthier to the extent that keto stops you from eating white bread and sugar, you will get positive results. To the extent that the south beach diet helps to stabilize your blood sugar, you will be healthier.

[00:15:49] All of these diets, they work to some extent because they overlap. Like if we did a Venn diagram and there was the sort of scientific truth was one circle and these diets, they would all have some level of overlap with the scientific truth, some more than others. So that's why you've had some success. On all of them, but not long-term success on any of them because they're a piece of the puzzle and not the entire puzzle.

[00:16:17] The movie has layers and layers and layers. So I'm fine. Sharing the secret. The secret is all we need to do is identify foods that fill us up and keep us full for the longest period of time. That heal our hormones rather than damage them, that provide us with the most of that, which is essential for human life and that the least of that, which is addictive or toxic and that are not easily stored as fat that's a lot.

[00:16:42] And we abbreviate that and talk about that in the film, using the acronym sane for satiety out quickly foods, fill you up aggression, their hormonal impact nutrition, the ratio of good to bad and deficient. How likely they are to be stored as fat. But again, that's still too high level. We break it down into four food groups, non starchy vegetables, nutrient dense, protein, whole food fats, and low fructose fruits.

[00:17:05] Now people might say, okay, so what's different about that than the paleo diet or what's different than that. And the keto diet, or what's different than that. And the south beach diet, so on and so forth. The template that is outlined in the movie that is backed by these Harvard doctors is. How to choose foods within any of those other dietary frameworks, because remember there are other dietary frameworks that kosher is a dial to dietary framework.

[00:17:29] Hello is a dietary framework. So you can yeah. Beat Quito and say, you can be paleo insane. You could be vegan insane. You can be kosher and saying you could be hawala and say, the key is, if you're saying to the extent that you are saying. It will make you healthy and thrive to the extent that you're insane.

[00:17:48] It will not. So keto could be done eating toxic, processed ketogenic foods, or it could be done eating clean, helpful nutrient dense ketogenic foods. So what we're trying to do is say. Right. I don't want to get too whatever controversial, but you'll be like, there's many different religions in the world.

[00:18:10] You'll notice that all of them are like lying is bad and you probably shouldn't murder people. So they're like, they agree on the things that actually matter. And then the things that don't seem to matter as much, or let's put it this way, the things that don't impact how you live your life and interact with others.

[00:18:28] Is where they might disagree a little bit. So nutrition has become that way a lot. It's become religious rather than scientific. Not that those two things are at opposition with each other, but what we focus on are these common denominators, which can teach you how to get the best results from within any other diet or dietary framework you choose to add.

[00:18:53] One 

[00:18:53] Jeremy: of the differences. I think that stood out to me and maybe I'm misremembering it, maybe I misunderstood. But in terms of even choosing produce and products, there, wasn't an emphasis on organic. There wasn't an emphasis on staying away from the middle of the store, too much things. Like I noticed that the footage was people picking up the package of vegetable noodles to replace the pasta noodles, that sort of thing.

[00:19:14] If you went on Twitter and tweeted something like, Hey, conventional produce is just fine, eat it until you're blue in the face. You would just get lit up by, out by these diet, religion people. So am I interpreting that correctly? And, and why is, why do you recommend conventional versus organic produce at all at this point, the 

[00:19:35] Jonathan: title of the film that you were kind enough to watch and bring me on the show to talk about is better not perfect.

[00:19:41] And there's a reason for that. We don't have a diabetes epidemic in this country because people are eating too many servings of conventional spinach. It's because the average American eats zero servings of green vegetables per day. So in a spirit of getting better, when we have people in our country who don't even act have access to canned vegetables, let alone farmer's market.

[00:20:07] Artismal kale pumps locally 

[00:20:11] Jeremy: sourced from. 

[00:20:13] Jonathan: So it's not that those are bad in any way, shape or form. We have more people dying of diabesity than any other disease period. Like one in three Americans are diabetic or pre-diabetic, we've seen a 100000% increase in this disease in the past hundred years. And many of us have been taught that it's not even a disease.

[00:20:38] We've been taught that it's a character flaw, that it's a moral failing that we just need to try harder. So for me, it's not that organic. Is bad. It's a little bit like organic is calculus. And as a culture, we haven't even learned algebra yet. So let's get the basics. Let's make progress. And then if you tell a mother of five children, who's on food stamps that unless she's eating organic vegetables, she's killing her children.

[00:21:06] She's not even going to try. 

[00:21:08] Jeremy: Totally. That totally makes sense. Another point from the movie that. Totally new and very interesting to me was the concept of the body weight set point, explain to our listeners what this is and why this is so important to what you're trying to share with people. 

[00:21:23] Jonathan: This might be the biggest distinction that's happened in the scientific community recently, because interestingly enough, the year I was born 1983, there was a book released called the set point diet.

[00:21:34] And back then there was this theory that there was a body weight set point in that. Less your body will just fight you and burn less. And if you beat more, you know, your body will try to balance you out. Well, since then, we've learned a lot about how the body works and the idea of your body balancing itself out is not a theory.

[00:21:54] It's a fact, I mean, all of us in high school biology class likely heard the term homeostasis. Every living organism, not just people on the. Works to maintain life. It tries to stay alive and it does that by trying to maintain balance. There's a reason there is no life on the sun. It's quite hot there.

[00:22:12] It's the temperature is too high. It's not in a fixed range. If you drink more water, you urinate more. You don't have to think about it. It just happens. If you sleep less one night, you will be more tired the next day. You don't have to think about it. It just happens. Your body works to balance any life-sustaining function.

[00:22:30] Otherwise you die. So what is diabetes? Diabetes is when your body loses its ability to balance your blood sugar set point. It doesn't mean you don't have a blood sugar set point. Of course you do it just. If you get a disease, your body can lose the ability to do that. And the way conventional medicine treats it is tells you to balance it manually using medication or insulin, or what is hypertension?

[00:22:56] Hypertension is the breakdowns of the body's ability to automatically balance blood pressure around a life sustaining set. So, what is obesity? Obesity is a disease where the body, specifically the brain, the gut, and the hormones have a loss, their ability to balance energy stores around a life sustaining level.

[00:23:15] The reason this is so important is because conventional methods of eating less and exercising more work to override or fight against that set point rather than changing. And if you want to prove to yourself that fighting battles against your basic biology will never work. Here's how to do that. Try not to go to the bathroom for the next 24 hours.

[00:23:38] Jeremy: Well, 

[00:23:39] Jonathan: it, we laugh about that, but if I were to tell you to eat 1200 calories for the next seven days, you'd be like, all right, willpower. Yeah. Or if I told you to hold your breath for the next seven minutes, you'd be like, Jonathan that's ridic. But if I told you to starve yourself for the next seven days, you'd be like, all right, biohacking.

[00:23:58] Right? Right. 

[00:24:00] Jeremy: Well, okay. So that was, that was another mindblower for me was the way that you explained why calories in calories out doesn't work. Just, it was one of those light bulb moments. Like I've always known it doesn't work, but the way you explain it, I was like, oh God, like finally, somebody made this in a way that my dumb brain can process this and make it make sense for me.

[00:24:19] So please share. Or I guess why calories in calories out is nonsense. We're going to do it the same 

[00:24:25] Jonathan: way I did that blew your mind. But I also, I also a couple of ways of explaining it. So the, one of the simple ways I try to explain it is the calorie map that we've been taught. There's this whole, if you eat 500 fewer calories in a day in seven days, that's 3,500 calories.

[00:24:40] There's 3,500 calories in a pound of fat, therefore less 500 calories per day, less one pound of body fat per week. Now that makes sense mathematics. But your body isn't math, it's biology, wherever there are different classes, right? Do you have math class, your biology class? They're very different things.

[00:24:56] So then the fundamental flaw, calories out calories in math equation is that right? It's math and it assumes that your body doesn't exist. Like your body is here. It's a thing. It participates in that dynamic. So if you just like let's, let's keep those sort of bodies stupid. Doesn't have an opinion framework.

[00:25:16] If you just wanted to not breathe. Theoretically, you should be able to not breathe until you die, but your body won't let you. It will literally, it has no, it's like, no, you will pass out and I will make you breathe. You can't just not go to the bathroom. You'll pee your pants. Right. So if you just eat less, your body will say, okay, I'm just going to burn less or I'm just going to run cooler or I'm just going to metabolize your food differently so that I can store more a bit like you're not going to beat.

[00:25:47] I'm going to keep you alive. So if you burn more without changing the system, your body will just cause you to consume more. If you eat less without changing the system, your body will just burn less. So this idea that just eat more, eat less, lose more is replaced by the actual science of eat, less burn less.

[00:26:10] And then you start to see, well, that's not helpful. What do I do? Yeah, 

[00:26:13] Jeremy: that was, that was the thing that I had just, I had never processed the idea that, that my body would respond and go, oh, if we're getting less than we better hang on to this, we better store this for later. And then when we inevitably crash after a few days and you go, well, screw it.

[00:26:26] I haven't lost any weight in two weeks, I'm going to eat, you know, a gallon of ice cream, then your body goes, oh, hello. And then decides to just store that also, right? Because it's like, well, we got to hang onto this because we might get through another starvation 

[00:26:40] Jonathan: points. That's exactly right. You can prove this.

[00:26:43] I mean, most people who dieted have experiences, they become cold, they become crabby and they become lethargic. That is your body just downshifting and saying, well, there's less available for me. So, I mean, just like, if you want to, if we lost our job and we had less money, chances are, if we were rational, competent people, we would then spend.

[00:27:05] Your body's pretty damn good at keeping you alive. That's why human beings have taken over the planet. So if you start to give it less of what it needs to live, it's going to say, I bet her conserve more. So someone's going to say what about fasting? Okay. Yes, 

[00:27:18] Jeremy: that was in my head and I was like, I don't want to get too deep in the weeds, but that's something I do.

[00:27:21] So just for my own personal needs, what I'm curious, how does fasting work with this 

[00:27:26] Jonathan: is a swimmer. A good piece of clothing to wear. Depends where you are. Are you on a beach? Where are you at? Are you at a wedding? I had a wedding not too appropriate at a beach. It's great. So fasting has benefits for some people right now.

[00:27:43] I think the way fasting is being communicated is a euphemism for extreme starvation dieting. Key point here. The reason we are becoming sicker and sicker, the harder we try to be healthier is because our relationship with food has been bastardized and we will not improve our relationship with food by literally saying no food.

[00:28:11] Right? If you, if you are trying to improve your marriage by completely disengaging with your spouse. You will probably not improve your marriage. So there are therapeutic benefits to fasting in certain situations, in a marriage, there are benefits to having some time away from your spouse, right? But ultimately the quality of the food you eat period, is what determines your longterm health and wellbeing.

[00:28:41] So I get very frustrated. Like the paradigm shift we need is to focus on quality, not quantity. So once you accept that, why would you fast? It's just another mechanism to diddle with the quantity of what you're consuming, rather than focusing on the quality of what you're consuming. So 

[00:29:01] Jeremy: combine those last two points into one and the idea of calories in calories out.

[00:29:05] Okay. We've tossed that aside. Good quality foods, nutrient dense foods, good stuff. Is there a point where if I ate 6,000 calories of spinach and vegetables, And I'm only burning 2000 calories because I have a pretty sedentary lifestyle. I don't do much. Am I going to gain weight by eating 6,000 calories of the food that you're saying would be good for us to eat?

[00:29:28] Does calories in calories out ever factor in if we're eating good quality food? 

[00:29:33] Jonathan: Absolutely. Yes. So this is where I diverged from some of the people I was literally on a podcast 

[00:29:39] Zach: a long time ago with one of the. Very 

[00:29:41] Jonathan: low carb people. And I explicitly said, if I eat 10,000 calories of butter, will I gain weight?

[00:29:47] And they dodged the question. So it's not the calories don't count it's that you don't need to count counts. So if you consistently drink 10,000 calories of butter, I don't care that your body's not releasing insulin. You don't need insulin to turn butter and fat. It's already fat. You will gain weight.

[00:30:03] The question is, will you do that? And the answer is no. Right. If you eat a diet of mountain, Dew and Pringles, you will overeat. You have to overeat. It's impossible not to overeat. It's physically impossible to eat 6,000 calories of spinach, but then people will just argue, well, okay, I get it. But no, it's actually physically impossible to overeat sane foods, period.

[00:30:29] You will be very uncomfortable. It's not. Just eat. It's not even like physically, just from us, the tidy perspective, you will become nauseous. It will not be pleasant. You would have to physically try hard to overeat and most people don't do that. So, yes, absolutely. If you intentionally overeat calories, you will gain weight.

[00:30:50] You will not gain as much weight as you should. According to calorie math. And that's been proven in every overfeeding study that's ever been done. They have done overfeeding studies where they intentionally overfeed. Nobody gains as much weight as they should. According to calorie math, they do gain weight.

[00:31:07] But again, the fact that you gain weight, one could say, well, doesn't that mean you don't have a set point? No, no, no, no, no, no. Your set point causes you to not gain as much weight as you should. And then if you stop eating that way and go back to the way you ate before your set point will bring you back to your weight.

[00:31:23] That's your set point once you to be at? So it's not that calories don't count it's that if the system is working properly, Your brain will count calories for you, specifically, your ventral medial hypothalamus. 

[00:31:35] Jeremy: And so interesting. As, uh, as we wrap things up here, give me just like three simple, like I want to, I want to do better today.

[00:31:42] What are three things I can do aside from watching the movie? Obviously, what do I need to do at the store? What do we need to do to just get on a better path than the one I've 

[00:31:50] Jonathan: been on? The eat green vegetables, if possible with every meal, just that's it. Like no one wants to talk about that. But at the simplest, if I die and on my tombstone, he's like the average American or average person now eats one more serving of green vegetables per day.

[00:32:05] I will have done that. That's the thing. 

[00:32:06] Jeremy: So many people focus on, what do I take away? And so often the answer is what do you need to add? That we'll fix it. But 

[00:32:11] Jonathan: yeah. Right. More green vegetables, a bunch of other stuff happens. So more green vegetables is one prioritize. Like very, very, very important to prioritize sleep.

[00:32:24] And if the other, this is more of a tactical thing to just try thinking of this, hold the starch, double the vegetables. So oftentimes people will eat starch just to fill themselves up. I'm not advocating a ketogenic diet here. I'm not saying anything about a ketogenic diet. I'm just saying that everything that grains do, grains, whole grains, any kind.

[00:32:49] Vegetables do better. So if you can just like pile freakin vegetables on your plate next to whatever the main dishes and leave it alone. That's it. You're good to go. That's great stuff, 

[00:33:03] Jeremy: man. Where do we learn more about you and the movie and what you're up to 

[00:33:07] Jonathan: please go to better again, that's better movie.

[00:33:12] Jeremy: Perfect man. Thank you so much for your time and for your work. It's really important and really great to talk to you. 

[00:33:17] Jonathan: Thank you so much.

[00:33:23] Jeremy: All right. That was Jonathan Baylor has film better and there was a link to it on our website that fit Lots of great information there. Uh, one of my favorite, you know, I guess biohacks for lack of a better. His, uh, his idea of just throwing a bunch of vegetables on whatever the side dishes on your plate that is such an easy way to start to improve, move your diet.

[00:33:45] Jonathan: Yeah. 

[00:33:45] Zach: Agreed. And I, when I wasn't able to attend this interview, so when I listened to it in my car and he said 6,000 calories of spinach, uh, yelled challenge accepted, I have to try that. I want to figure out like 

[00:34:00] Jonathan: what that feeling is. I'm going to try 

[00:34:03] Zach: and use as much spinach as I can in 

[00:34:04] Jeremy: one sec. How much did you do the math?

[00:34:06] How much spinach would 6,000 calories of it's gotta be right. Like a wheelbarrow. I think it's 

[00:34:11] Zach: going to be like, if I was buying the little bricks of frozen spinach, I can't be a freezer full. 

[00:34:16] Jeremy: Oh God. That's so disgusting. Yeah. 

[00:34:19] Zach: I'm not a big fan of spinach to begin with, but I know it is good for 

[00:34:22] Jeremy: me. It's fantastic.

[00:34:23] If you put it in a blender with all kinds of fruits and veggies and smash it up into a fine. 

[00:34:29] Jonathan: And then pour down the drain sign, 

[00:34:34] Zach: spinach, spinach. Right? Right. So I kind of like the taste of it now, but I hated it as a kid and my dad would make me eat it and I'd put it on the plate and I'd have to sit there until it was gone.

[00:34:46] And I would always get it in the garbage. But then he'd wake me up at 1130 at night and bring me back downstairs. And the spinach was back on the table, 

[00:34:54] Jeremy: the garbage from the garbage, 

[00:34:56] Zach: from the garbage. And I'd have to sit there and eat it. So spinach and I w w we have a Rocky relationship, but I'm going to try, I'm going to see how many calories of spinach I can eat before I probably just vomit.

[00:35:09] Jeremy: And now we know why you have cholesterol.

[00:35:14] All right. Never 

[00:35:16] Zach: in moderation. I'm either nothing 

[00:35:17] Jeremy: all the way, I guess. So one thing I want to mention quickly, shout out to our new sponsor inside tracker. This is a great way to improve your diet, by the way, to it, to biohack your way to better health. This is something I've been doing for the last several weeks and I'm loving the progress that I'm seeing, because just before we started the show, I was, uh, checking in for the day, adding in all of the things I've done on my list.

[00:35:36] When I started on inside tracker, my, I think my wellness score was like 74.3 or something. Today I broke 76. And it's just this steady climb up and it's just simple things. It's, uh, you know, I was mentioned in, on the last show, I've turned into you, I'm taking a fistful of supplements to twice a day and in a small fistful in the middle of the day, eating oatmeal here, I have, I've been like pro keto Tarion for my entire life, eating oatmeal, like nobody's business and tons of fruits and vegetables.

[00:36:06] And it's all because of the specific recommendations for my needs, based on my blood work that inside tracker. And they are. It's just a really, it's, it's a fun way. Like gamifies your health. It gives you a way to, to track your progress. And it gives you the customized personal recommendations for you.

[00:36:23] Not this general overview of 10 things that the average person could do is based on what your body needs based on your blood works. I'm really excited to have them on board as a spot. They're offering you for a limited time, 25% off the entire inside tracker store. Or just go to our website inside, or visit the link on our website, the

[00:36:44] There are links there to that deal. So thank you to them for being on board. And I am very excited to be using it personally. I can't wait to see where I'm at in a few months with it. Zach, you got to get on the horse, man, got to get your blood. I 

[00:36:57] Zach: know there's a little issue with me getting my blood work.

[00:36:59] So I'm getting that done 

[00:37:00] Jeremy: this week. Awesome. We'll continue to update you. There would love to find out how it's working for you. So if you do sign up, please get in touch with us and let us know. We'd love to team up and help you along the way. While you're at our website, please do subscribe on whatever podcast player you're using.

[00:37:14] Please sign up for the newsletter. So you never miss an update about to show and heck while you're there, leave us a review. We love the reviews. You can do that really, where we will be back next week on Wednesday with a brand new episode. Thanks so much for listening.

[00:37:29] Jonathan: Everyone. We know this podcast is amazing. It doesn't seem to lack anything, but we need a legal disclaimer. Prior to implementing anything discussed in this podcast is your responsibility to conduct your own research and consult your physician. You should assume that Jeremy and Zach don't know what they're talking about, and they're not liable for any physical or emotional issues that occur directly or indirectly from listening to this podcast.


Jonathan BailorProfile Photo

Jonathan Bailor

Founder of Wellness Engineering

Jonathan Bailor is the founder of Wellness Engineering and the world’s fastest-growing permanent weight loss and diabesity treatment company SANESolution. He authored the NYTimes bestseller The Calorie Myth and The Setpoint Diet, has registered over 26 patents, and has spoken at Fortune 100 companies and TED conferences for over a decade. His work has been endorsed and implemented by top doctors from Harvard Medical School, Johns Hopkins, the Mayo Clinic, the Cleveland Clinic, and UCLA. Jonathan lives outside Seattle with his wife, Angela, and daughter Aavia Gabrielle.