July 14, 2021

Are You Feeling Lost? Really Good Advice on Getting From Here to There with Hallie Bateman

Are You Feeling Lost? Really Good Advice on Getting From Here to There with Hallie Bateman

Our guest is, Hallie Bateman, She is the author of “DIRECTIONS: Really Good Advice for Getting from Here to There.”

Hallie Bateman is is an illust-writer based in Los Angeles. She is the author of “DIRECTIONS: Really Good Advice for Getting from Here to There.” In this episode, we talk with her about following your intuition, overcoming doubt, and what it means to truly be alive.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • Why you should follow your intuition
  • How art can help you heal and connect with others
  • Why overcoming doubt is important
  • How to learn to love yourself
  • Why you should not be embarrassed - ever


Guest Website

Fit Mess Toolkit


Robots wrote these transcripts. Very dumb robots.

[00:00:00] Hallie: This is the fit mess conversations with world-class experts in the fields of mental, physical, and emotional health. And this episode, it's not telling you what you have to be or. Or even like exactly how you're going to get there. It's not about that. It's about looking at things through a slightly different lens that helps you not be in shame and pain and confusion, things like that.

[00:00:29] Now, here are your. Zach and Jeremy 

[00:00:34] Jeremy: on any journey, no matter how trivial or serious you're bound to get off track, that's especially true when it comes to self-improvement. There are peaks, valleys, tips, tricks, and sometimes complete bullshit. All of which can leave you feeling lost. But I know for me, it usually only takes a little nudge in the right direction to get back on track.

[00:00:57] At least for me. But if I'm really lost, that's when it's time to ask for directions, that's why we're excited to share with you. In this episode, our interview with Holly Bateman, she's an author and illustrator and artist, her new book is full of directions. In fact, that's the title directions. Really good advice for getting from here to there, 

[00:01:18] Zach: as you're getting ready to speak with Holly Bateman about, about her book directions, flipping through her book, it was, it was really interesting how just depending on my mood, As to what caught my eye and what motivated me and you know, what helped, but it was, it was incredible how like this and, and other things, right?

[00:01:36] You, your mood, your feelings. Like, I want to believe that I'm a static guy. Like, I feel the same all the time, but like, I just bounce around all over the place. Like, you know, one minute I'm happy. The next I'm sad. The next minute I'm depressed. The next minute I'm excited. Happy again. And it's just all over the place all the time.

[00:01:56] And that's okay. I'm not saying that that's a bad thing. It's just recognizing that like your emotions are so short-lived and then you're onto the next, and then you're onto the next and you don't know what that next one's going to be. So being prepared for the range of emotions, and I'm not talking about huge changes between being happy and sad, but you know, it is amazing when you think about it, like how.

[00:02:22] Many peaks and valleys you have in any given day, and then wonder how you're actually saying and able to keep a job and like just function as a human being with all of this craziness running through your head. 

[00:02:35] Jeremy: That, I mean, that triggers a couple of things for me. One is, uh, you know, whenever I go to my therapist, he always asks how I'm doing and that, you know, generally opens up an hour of me just complaining about things.

[00:02:44] But whenever I ask him how he's doing, he's he always says I'm always the same. And I know it's bullshit, but he's, he's playing this game of I'm. I'm not a real person. I am this mirror that you're about to bounce all of this stuff off of, and the idea of trying to be that robotic and to be that static is just impossible.

[00:03:05] And so when you do allow room for emotions to do what they're going to do and feelings to do what they're doing. It, like you said, becomes kind of alarming it at how much you swing and that sort of piggybacks on what we talk about about last week, about being prepared for anything for most people.

[00:03:24] Maybe I shouldn't say most people, I think for many people, an emotional range of emotions and ups and downs are a normal part of everybody's day. But for people that battle any kind of mental illness, anxiety, depression, that kind of thing, you have to be prepared for those. Huge peaks in those huge valleys and know what weapons to use to fight back when those start to take over.

[00:03:46] And that's what, when we talked to Greg Everett last week about finding the balance, not letting any of those emotions take control or, or over rationalizing that, that sort of thing, having the tools and knowing how to react so that you can keep some sense of balance is essential. And that's. That's so much of what we talk about here 

[00:04:09] Zach: and the right tools is what we're referring to.

[00:04:11] Right. I mean, I can, I can think back to, uh, a number of instances where the darkness crept in and my first instinct was well, time to go drink some, 

[00:04:22] Jeremy: right. That is such a hard one to kick when you let that go too. Like, I still, I haven't had, I haven't had a sip of alcohol in four years and, and again, for anyone who's not familiar, like, I, I don't think I was any kind of an alcoholic.

[00:04:35] I don't think it was an addiction. But it certainly was a dependency. And I know that now when the, when the stress is too much, there is this default. What, what toxin can I put in my body to fix this? What, how can I take this away? Yeah, no, 

[00:04:50] Zach: I, I, I gave it up five years ago, myself and same thing, but I replaced it with like, you know, ice cream.

[00:04:57] So I, and I recognize that now, like when I'm having that stressful moment, when I'm having those. Dark places or something. That's got me, you know, I have retrained myself to go reach for the ice cream instead of the beer, which is, you know, equally bad in different ways, but I don't lose control and will develop diabetes.

[00:05:18] You know, I don't lose control. Um, but I do recognize is it now, like when I, when I am craving ice cream now, like I know that that that's a reflection point, right? That's a moment where I can sit back and go, alright. What's happening. What's really happening here. Let's, let's get rid of the bullshit, get rid of the surface and let's dig deep and figure out what's going on.

[00:05:39] Jeremy: This is what we're talking about all the time about getting curious in those moments. And I'm having to do that right now today, before we hit record. Um, I just I'm, I'm in a funk. I don't, I don't feel awesome. It's been already a hectic morning with a lot of things going on and it's going to be an even more hectic day.

[00:05:54] And I spent five hours hanging out with friends who I haven't seen in a year and a half yet. And I know like, and it's nothing against that. I love, I love them. I would spend all the time in the world with them, but when you haven't spent time with anyone for a year and a half, and then you start diving deep into these long visits, it's emotionally draining and it just takes all this energy.

[00:06:17] And even though, you know, I know, I know I slept well last night, there's just, I'm craving, just quiet. I'm craving just a retreat into a place where I can just sort of recharge. And I only know that because I'm sitting here going, okay, why do I feel this way? Instead of just reacting to it and going, what garbage can they put in my face?

[00:06:37] Now I need to yell at everybody. Now I need to, you know, throw something. Cause I'm angry. You do have to get curious when you're fighting those moments and find the path that will really help you out of it. And not just put a bandaid on it, like, you know, drinking or whatever. Yeah. 

[00:06:56] Zach: So just, you know, for the listeners, why are we, why are we talking about all this?

[00:07:00] We have a, we have a really good reason for why we're, we're talking about the ups and downs and the, the different days. We, we have a really good interview coming up, but we got a chance to talk with Holly Bateman, the author of directions. Really good advice for getting from here to there. The book is really great.

[00:07:17] It's, it's a final product of, of this really cool and interesting artistic process that she went through to come up with these directions. And it's just a very different book, but, uh, I loved it, Jeremy. I know you read it too. 

[00:07:31] Jeremy: It's a great one to have on the nightstand and to just be able to pick up and turn to any random page and, and sort of process.

[00:07:38] What is, what is the meaning of this to me right now? Why did, why did fate turn me to this page? And just, it offers you chances to reflect on, on sort of where you are in your journey, 

[00:07:49] Zach: but enough from us. Let's, let's just cut over to the interview with Holly Bateman and she will tell you all about her new book directions.

[00:07:56] Jeremy: Your book is a lot of fun, a lot of fun to flip through. And I'm curious about the title getting from here to there. What does that mean for you? That's obviously something that anyone who opens this can interpret for themselves, but what did that mean for you when you put that together? 

[00:08:11] Hallie: Yeah. So the subtitle was, was something that actually, my publisher helped me create.

[00:08:18] And you know, when you're making a book, you know, people might think that this was a hundred percent me, but there's an entire team of brilliant people making every aspect of it shine. And, um, the getting from here to there aspect. I, I like that because as you said, it's like, Broad enough that people can interpret it, how they want.

[00:08:44] But the way that I see it is that this book isn't really about like arriving somewhere finally, and like, oh, you're like, it's not about fixing you. It's not about becoming this, you know, alternate version of yourself. It's about going from a place of. Maybe you're in a, in a pinch of agony about something and S a page you read in this book might tweak things just enough that you're out of agony and closer to joy.

[00:09:16] And the way that that I interpret that title is sort of. That's what this book is about. It's just giving your direction. It's not giving you a destination. It's not telling you what you have to be, or, or even like exactly how you're going to get there. It's not about that. It's about looking at things through a slightly different lens that helps you not be in shame and pain and confusion, things like that.

[00:09:50] Zach: So just like drawing on the title of the book, how, how did this come to be? How did it go from non-existent to actually something physical that you're holding? Like I want, I want to hear that story because this is a bit of a different book. 

[00:10:05] Hallie: Yeah. So this book is different. Even for me, I've made two other books.

[00:10:09] And the way that I made my, my last two books was the first one was commissioned by the museum of modern art. So they had the idea, they came to me and said, here, we want you to do this. And then I did it. Um, the second book was I had this idea. Worked on it for five years with my mom and then, and then turned it into a book.

[00:10:34] Um, my mom and I wrote a book together called what to do and I'm gone. And it was very much like we had this idea and, you know, pushed and pushed until it exists. And directions was not an idea at all to begin with. It was really a. Something that appeared. And then I responded to it appearing. So I was drawing in 2017 with my brother.

[00:11:05] He was visiting and we. Torn up a bunch of construction paper and we were just sitting together and, and the idea was that we were going to fill up every page until it was done, which is an exercise that I love to do just for fun. Um, and that was when the first directions appeared. And I, I did not conceive of them before they were on the page.

[00:11:29] I just wrote a handful of them. And at the end of our afternoon, I. Looked through them and was like, I guess I won't throw these away. So I, I talked to them in envelopes and put them away and didn't look at them or think about them for another year. When I came across them again, I thought they were kind of funny.

[00:11:55] Uh, I decided to share them not with the idea that I would make more, just the idea of like, oh, I didn't throw these away. I guess I'll share them. So. So I shared them and the response from my, my followers on Instagram was so strong and so unique. And so like unusual, like they, they were quite like, like they just got a, a real response from people.

[00:12:22] And I think that. I really wouldn't have written more. If it weren't for how much people responded, it really made me pay attention and people literally asked for more. And so I was really guided by the artwork and by the people who are consuming the artwork, it wasn't that I had, you know, me, Holly had this idea that this would be a series.

[00:12:50] It was like very much me following. Information I was being given. And so I, I paid attention to that. I sat down, I wrote more of them. I kind of replicated the process that I'd written the first ones with where I would like tear up a bunch of construction paper grind, my ink. Like I, I work with, um, An ink stone and you, you grind ink with water and you kind of make your own ink.

[00:13:17] So I have this, like this sort of meditative process that I would get into. I would smoke a little weed, put on music, like try to get into a place where I can write and not. Really set it up so that I, I don't want to stop. So when I would sit down and start to write the first few directions that I would write, I would be in my head like, this is so bad.

[00:13:43] Stop what you're doing. What are you saying? Really? I was really making the space where I could just try to let go as much as possible and channel whatever wanted to come out and. So I learned that I had this, this part of my mind that wanted to censor what I was doing and wanted to, wanted me to stop.

[00:14:07] So I really tried to create an environment where, when I heard that voice, I would look around at everything that I'd prepared over like 20 minutes, like I'd set the scene and that I would be like, what else have I got to do today? Like, come on, just fill up the paper, just see. So that really became my process.

[00:14:25] And so I would, I would ink a ton of them. My space would be covered in all these pages that were, that ink was drying. And then I would go through them and kind of choose the ones that, that resonated with me. And, and they did surprisingly, some of them, I can't tell you. Where they came from and some of them are connected to a memory or maybe a feeling that I wanted to express for a very long time that finally found a voice in this process.

[00:14:54] And, and so I continued that and it was, it was stunning how much of a, uh, reaction it got. So, so that's kind of the, that's kind of, the process was just a lot of this, like repeating this. With unique experiments. 

[00:15:15] Jeremy: Yeah. Yeah. I have a thousand questions about that process. So I'm going to try and narrow them down to like two, but one is, as I was flipping through, one of the pages, uh, was something to the effect.

[00:15:24] And I thought I wrote this down, but I did not. One of them was something about, uh, if people tell you to write a book about it, write that book. And I was just curious as you were putting this together, and I imagine the response made you think, oh, this should be a book. Was there any of the doubt that crept in there?

[00:15:40] Who is going to buy this book that has pages of, of these directions rather than a more traditional book with, you know, here's, here's how to live your life better, et cetera, et cetera. The doubt hold you back much at all. Or did you just follow that same intuition that was speaking to you through those pages?

[00:15:58] Hallie: I have to say that this, this book, the doubt that I had was, was not necessarily about, oh, who would want. Because people there, I wrote that direction that says, if someone says this could be a book, make a book. So it's something like that. And I wrote that because people were telling me a lot to make it a book.

[00:16:25] Like I think I screenshot it a few of them and sent them to my agent and was like, so we'll make a book. Um, so I, it wasn't like I thought who would want this because. There was, there was enough of a response that, that became clear. The doubt was why do they want it? Which I, I, you know, I hesitate to say that because I'm here, I am publicizing my book, but truly this is something where, you know, my last book.

[00:16:56] I, it was a narrative. It was deeply personal. It was a story that I was telling and I was plagued with gout while we were making it. And while we were pitching it and in fact, most people didn't want it. And I had to really express here's why you want this. Here's why this is important and had to really push for it.

[00:17:18] And this book was not. Me pushing for something that people didn't want. It was, it was people saying, we want this, we want this. And I had to deal with my own resistance to doing what I'm told. There's actually another direction in the book that says, don't let their wanting it, stop you from giving it to them, which was about my own sort of.

[00:17:44] Egocentric response to people calling me to do something specific and, and my, my ego brain and being like, well, I didn't come up with it. So, or like, or like not, I didn't come up with it, but like, well, don't, I want to do my like, well, why should I do what I'm told? Like, you know,

[00:18:06] Yeah. So, so the, the doubt was more about my, my learning about what this meant to people and why this was so, so impactful and so popular. And actually when the book came out in March, I was really reflecting on what do I want to get out of it? Release what w w what are my intentions going into this book entering the world?

[00:18:35] And the main thing I came up with was, I want to find out what this book means to people, because it's still such a, a beautiful mystery to me where I. I can't, it's hard to talk about something that isn't narrative based, but it's really just me in a book, like sure. Like my husband read it. And it was just like, this is just you, this is you in a book.

[00:19:00] And, and that's, uh, that's a tricky thing to, you know, just have a tagline about and publicize and, and whatever it's sort of, yeah, it's sort of an interesting, as you said, it's a very different book. Yeah. 

[00:19:16] Zach: So, so it's you and a book then I'm going to go off of the script that I have over here. This is a, so I, as I flipped through this book twice, and the first time I went through it, a few of them stuck out and I was like, oh, that, that really resonates based on this, this moment in time.

[00:19:34] And then the next time I went through. Different ones that I had read before that had didn't hit me at all resonated based on that moment that I was in. And I really saw the, you know, the value of this book being, you know, just picking it up and you can find things that resonate in that particular moment.

[00:19:52] How does it feel though that like this book that is, you. Other people are resonating and there you're sharing all these common things with other people. And you know, something that you've written is really personal to me as well. If this is your book, it's a book about you. 

[00:20:11] Hallie: Yeah, I guess I wouldn't say it's about me, but I, I love hearing this, this interpretation that, that something that meant nothing to you one day meant something the next day.

[00:20:23] That is so true. And that's how that's how life is. Um, so thank you for sharing that. That's so interesting. I, I, I'm honored to, to be able to connect with people in this way. And I think that the process that I created with myself, where I sort of kept fear out of it and. Allowed the words to, to be put on the page and, and really tried to not be writing from Holly.

[00:21:01] Like I tried to be, I tried to just let absolutely whatever wanted to, to come out, to come out. And I think that that's sort of the reason why there's a, a real shared humanity to these and why they're, you know, they're very. Simple and not overly, like they're, they're very specific, but they're not overly specific.

[00:21:31] And I think that there's something to the sort of gentle observational quality of them where I'm, I'm really not always saying like, you should do this in such a rigid way. I'm sort of like, if I am saying that it's like kind of jokey too. Admit to yourself that your ass is exquisite. Like when you're saying that to someone there's there's sucked, uh, it can't be interpreted as like a bullying demand because it's just so silly.

[00:22:04] I guess that, that balance as being something that I strike in this, it makes it feel even though so much of it is so deeply personal, like that, that direction, you know, connects to my own experience with an eating disorder. And with, with me needing to admit that my ass is exquisite and yet, you know, that stuff isn't that stuff is there informing it, but it's not on the page.

[00:22:32] I've never really offered except a little bit on Instagram. When the book came out, I sort of, I sort of experimented with explaining some of what went into some of them, but I've really tried to leave a lot of the, you know, autobiographical aspects out of it and just offer. The lesson without, without too much context, I'm 

[00:22:55] Jeremy: going to put Zach on the spot a little bit with the exquisite ass, uh, page, because that one stood out to me because like you said, it's, it's not an instruction manual, but it is sort of a guide and can sort of shift your perspective as Zach and I have been doing this show and trying to grow a social media community.

[00:23:12] At some point, somebody said something to him about his ass and how he, he has a rather okay. Ass on some level and that he should share more of that because that would grow, you know, the social media audience. And so when I read that, I was like, that is that it's exactly that it's those little moments where someone sort of needs to help you point it.

[00:23:31] A different perspective. So maybe Zach doesn't think he has an exquisite exquisite ass, but somebody thought he did and went, you should share more of that. I want to see more of your ass in the gym and it's just 

[00:23:42] Zach: right. I actually took a screen. I took a picture of that page and sent it to my wife. Should I, should I believe.

[00:23:51] And you responded back. Yup. Exclamation points. 

[00:23:56] Jeremy: So I love that. I love that. It is just these, it's not so much, uh, an instruction manual, but these sort of gentle nudges to think differently. Uh, and I'm curious as these ideas, these different directions were coming to you. Are there any that ended up in the book that you either have regrets or had regret or, or had some hesitation about putting them in because you had whatever negative experience with them.

[00:24:22] And also, are there a couple that are just, these are gold and I'm so glad that I then put the work into these? 

[00:24:29] Hallie: Well, I certainly don't have any that I regret putting in my team and I were combing through, I mean, I think we had hundreds that we were. Considering. And, and every one that wound up in here was, you know, as silly as some of them are, were very carefully considered.

[00:24:49] So, so no, I don't have any that, that I regret. I do have, you know, some favorites, one of my favorites is on page 29. Do not be embarrassed, not even have that, not even have that. And that was one of the first ones I wrote and is one that I, I feel so connected to just because you know how deep down, we're all kind of like a different age of ourselves as children at different points that I live.

[00:25:22] Like, I feel very much like in my soul, I'm like 11 years old and I'm on the playground and I am deeply humiliated by everything. And so. This one is a reminder to myself that I'm not 11. No, one's going to believe me and well, except sometimes people on the internet, but fuck them. Um, I, yeah, and that being embarrassed of something is what makes it embarrassing.

[00:25:57] And if you're not embarrassed, then it's not embarrassing and there's sort of a beautiful. Twist of the mind to that where you can realize, I mean, the one about admit to yourself that your ass is exquisite is the same thing. Where if you, if you find yourself beautiful, exquisite, sexy, whatever, if you are able to believe that that is the whole thing.

[00:26:25] And I re I, I think that one really came out of realizing that. When I would be looking at, you know, other like women's bodies and, and I would be envious. It was not even about the shape of their body. It was not about how it looked. It was about how they seemed comfortable and how they seemed to love themselves.

[00:26:47] And, and that was such a, I mean, I don't know if I realized that before I wrote the direction, but it was really coming out of this thing of like, oh, it's about choosing to. To love yourself. And it's about choosing to, to, you know, be the one to, to find yourself beautiful and then everything else follows.

[00:27:11] Zach: So there's, there's two I wanted to ask you about, um, one is, um, really just, uh, how, how deeply it hit me. It's the, if you, if it ever occurs, occurs to you to buy flowers by them, Every time I walk in the grocery store, you have to walk through the flower section. And every time I think about it and every time I don't get them.

[00:27:31] So that changes today. Um, well I go to the grocery store a lot, so it might be a little bit of an expensive outing, but we'll, we'll figure it out. But the other one that I wanted to ask you, you about that really? That both times when I flipped through it really just went. I went, uh huh. Yeah, that's it it's, you know, think about what you'll miss most when you're dead and do more of that.

[00:27:57] That one was like, Ooh. Yeah, that's really deep. And that, I need to remember that one, but I want to hear your perspective on that and 

[00:28:05] Hallie: wow. I love that you chose that one. I haven't, I haven't been asked too much about that one. I think mostly because people shy away from talking about that, but I love that one.

[00:28:18] And thank you for, for bringing it up. I wrote that it really came out of a very exact memory, a very exact experience that happened years ago. You know, I think I always wanted to express what that feeling was. And then it came out in a directions. So I was actually, it was when I lived in New York and I went to the movies by myself in the middle of the day.

[00:28:48] And I was watching the Roger Ebert documentary that came out a few years ago and going to the movies, first of all, by myself in the middle of the day in New York city. Just my favorite thing. Um, one of the things I truly miss the most about New York and when I was there watching it, I mean, I was just crying throughout the movie and it wasn't part of it was the movie was beautiful and Roger Ebert, beautiful person, and just the whole, you know, story of that.

[00:29:25] And then there was also just this full body sense of awe that. I get to be here watching this I'm alive. This is w this is something that I won't be able to do when I'm dead. And I, I, I just, I, I just think are going to miss this the most, like one of the things that I'm going to miss the most. And, and I remember just being so hit hard by that.

[00:29:55] And. Weirdly. I walked out of that movie and my dad called me to tell me that my grandma had passed away, which is a funny, a funny connection that, you know, you get that full body sense of life is so precious and then reminders upon reminders. But, but yeah, I mean that, that feeling and how. How it truly, uh, hit me in a way that was unforgettable.

[00:30:30] I don't think you remember going to the movies that much because you just remember the movie, but, but that really hit me hard. And then I, I, I guess I think it just came out in, in one of the sessions and it was just one of those things that I had been waiting to find a way to express that. So, so that's, that's kind of the story behind it.

[00:30:52] As 

[00:30:53] Jeremy: we wrap up that, that sort of brings me back to, um, some observations I had about just the introduction to the book and talking about alive people versus not alive people. And, and I think that sort of, uh, what you, just, the story of the beautiful story you just told, sort of sets up that experience of the difference between truly being alive and just sort of existing.

[00:31:12] So can you talk a little bit about that? How that became a part of your life? 

[00:31:18] Hallie: Yeah. Alive people is something that my mom would always say she would, she would just be like, you know, talking about someone she'd met and be like, Ooh, you know, they're at a live person. And, and the way that she, she defines that is someone who is alive is like listening, actually listening to what you're saying, finds.

[00:31:43] You know, finds, finds meaning and an excitement in serendipity. Actually the perfect example I have is like another kind of like in New York or something, if you, if you're you find yourself on the same subway car as your friend, and you're like, what? We're both here. And like I've had, I've had people who were both freaking out.

[00:32:05] We're like, oh my God magical. And then there's other people. Hey, what's up. I'm like, how can you not be absolutely astonished by this? And like, and that's sort of the definition of an alive person is someone who is just really, um, present in, in what's happening and, and, and a not alive person is. And I think we all are both at different times in life, but you know, not a live person is kind of.

[00:32:34] Dulled to the world. Like the deaf, the example I give in the book is that you'll just blow right past the Jasmine bushes and not stop to even pick up the scent. That's like very obvious. Um, and, and so I was really grateful to my mom for kind of giving me the perfect way to explain what the book is about, which to me is about finding.

[00:32:59] Finding bridges to a liveliness or, or, or ways to keep yourself in a liveliness. And I think that when I say that this book is me or this book is, you know, it's so much of myself, it's that? Yeah. That's kind of my whole deal. My mission in life is to, to keep myself in a place of attentiveness or like truly just feeling.

[00:33:28] Like good or bad being in a place where I can experience awe and experience how stunning it is to, to exist and how, how precious this is and how. Like going to the movies is something we shouldn't take for granted or all these little things are like, like let's, let's take a moment to be amazed by the fact that the three of us are even talking right now, things like that.

[00:33:55] And, and I just, I used, I used my mom's little, um, yeah, uh, definition as a way to explain kind of what this is and it's, and it's very much like what Zach said. Let the ones that hit you hate you. And don't this book is not to be scrutinized. It's not to be, you know, uh, obsessed over it's like fi drift through it.

[00:34:21] Find, find, well, it hits you that day and allow it to, to work way. 

[00:34:28] Jeremy: That's exactly how I pictured just leaving it on the bedside table and just, you know, open to a random page. And why did I open it to this page today and just explore? What is that? Why, why did the universe pick that page today? So great stuff.

[00:34:41] Uh, thank you so much for your time and for the book. Uh, where can we learn more about you and, uh, in the book and your other book? 

[00:34:47] Hallie: Yeah, so you can follow me on Instagram and Twitter at Halleck Bates, H a L L I T H B a T E S. And my website is just Holly bateman.com and, uh, directions is available.

[00:35:04] Everywhere books are sold. I especially love independent bookstores, but truly buy it wherever, wherever you wish. I really hope you love it.

[00:35:18] Zach: All right. That was our conversation with Holly Bateman, the author of directions. Really good advice for getting from here to there. Jeremy. We've, you know, we, we spent the beginning of the show really talking about the ups and downs and the different emotions. And I really, you know, one of the takeaways that I had from that conversation and, and from reading this book is really just the, you know, the multiple times that I've picked it up now and flipped through it, that it just, it resonates differently every time I, I read it and it it's, you know, not something that you read from beginning to end and go apply those principles.

[00:35:54] It's just something. You know, helps you in the moment with wherever you are in your life. 

[00:36:00] Jeremy: It's funny. It totally makes sense that it's a project that was born basically from sharing on Instagram, because it is very similar to when I scroll our feed on Instagram and, you know, because of the nature of the accounts that we.

[00:36:14] There'll be different little posts of inspiration along the way. And at any point they can hit you in the right way or it can, oh, that doesn't fit right now that doesn't apply to me. But for the most part, it is just a book full of page after page of, of simple, what she wrote when she calls them directions, that's what they are.

[00:36:29] And they are directions for getting from here to there and here to, there is very much open to interpretation. And I think for me, I, I sort of, uh, infer. What she was talking about there at the end about a lifetime versus existing. And it really is directions from existing to being more alive, to being more in touch with your feelings, your struggles, whatever it is that you're going through.

[00:36:51] These, these pages can really help you. Just like I said, moments ago, just take a moment to reflect on where you are and whatever journey you're on, and it can really help sort of steer your next steps toward what you're working with. And part of that too, again, pointing out something she said about letting go of that inner critic, letting like just sort of releasing any judgment and worrying about what people are going to think about your work or your path or whatever it is that you're doing.

[00:37:19] That's so critical to this work, because if you constantly compare yourself to other people, you're constantly going to be behind in this artificial race that you've created for yourself. And that's never going to inspire you to take action. And action is so critical, even when you don't feel like taking it because that action creates the inspiration to take the next action and to keep going.

[00:37:42] And it's just, it's so easy. So often to compare yourself to someone else and give up and go, well, I'll never be that. 

[00:37:49] Zach: Yeah, I know. I personally, I was set up for failure at a, at a young age with, you know, how I was raised. Yeah. You know, constantly being compared to other people. My, you know, my dad, but I've shared it before it, my dad would would point, you know, to a large gentleman in a restaurant and be like, Zach, that's going to be you.

[00:38:07] Um, so yeah. Thanks, dad. Love you. He was a good guy, but he had a couple of flaws, but yeah. The comparison to, to other people is just something that I struggled with as a, as a, as a young man. I still struggle with it as an older man, but I'm okay with it now. Like the feelings come and I know how to knock them away.

[00:38:31] I know how to get rid of them. And, but sometimes I need things like this, you know, this book, right. It helps just that little quick reminder, uh, of these things. It's fantastic. I will continue to read this. Uh, on a regular basis because, you know, as we all know, my mood is subject to change 

[00:38:52] Jeremy: frequently because you're not a robot 

[00:38:56] Zach: I would like to be though.

[00:38:57] It would be cool as hell. 

[00:39:00] Jeremy: Okay. And with that, we will wrap it up for this week. Again, the book is directions, really good advice for getting from here to there. This by Holly Bateman, you can find the links to her and her book and her work on our website, the fit.com while you're there, please do subscribe to our newsletter, follow us on whatever podcast player you're using.

[00:39:17] And of course, ratings and reviews are always appreciated. And before we go is Zach, I don't, I don't know if, uh, you're you're not home right now. So there may be a package waiting for you on your doorstep when you get home. Our fresh delivery of athletic brewing company beer. Is, uh, is here. And so thank you to them for sponsoring us.

[00:39:35] We, we love working with those guys. It's just some of the best non-alcoholic beer available on the market. There might be a package 

[00:39:41] Zach: waiting for me, but you're right. I'm not home. I'm on vacation right now. Um, and I bought every athletic brewing, um, beer that, that the beer store had. By my house. And when I bought it, you know, I brought all of them up and then I went back and got more and brought more.

[00:39:57] Jeremy: How many, the goodbye, Jesus 

[00:39:59] Zach: Lord here for two weeks, if I didn't want to risk the fact that, you know, I couldn't get any out here. Right. Um, and I'll bring home whatever I don't drink, but I just, I want to have enough when I'm at the beach and the guy who was selling the beer was like, you know, this is non-alcoholic right.

[00:40:14] I was like, oh yeah, I do. 

[00:40:17] Jeremy: That's why I'm buying it. That's why I'm buying it. That's what makes it so great. So thank you to them for being a sponsor. And thank you for listening. That's going to do it for this week. We'll be back next wednesday@thefitness.com with a brand new episode. 

[00:40:30] Hallie: We know this podcast is amazing and doesn't seem to lack anything, but we need a legal disclaimer.

[00:40:35] Prior to implementing anything discussed in this podcast is your responsibility to conduct your own research and consult your physician. You should assume that Jeremy and Zach don't know what they're talking. And they're not liable for any physical or emotional issues that occur directly or indirectly.

[00:40:50] I'm listening to this podcast.

Hallie BatemanProfile Photo

Hallie Bateman


Hallie Bateman is an illust-writer based in Los Angeles. She is the author of Brave New Work and coauthor of What to Do When I’m Gone. Her work has been featured in national publications including the New Yorker, The New York Times Magazine, Buzzfeed, and many others.