Sept. 1, 2021

The One Ring to Rule Them All. How to Reach Your Fitness Goals and Look Good Doing it with Harpreet Singh Rai

The One Ring to Rule Them All. How to Reach Your Fitness Goals and Look Good Doing it with Harpreet Singh Rai

Our guest is Oura Ring CEO, Harpreet Singh Rai.

Wearable fitness trackers. Everyone’s got one these days…or maybe more than one. You can use them to keep tabs on everything from calories to steps to the amount of water you drink. But are you keeping track of your sleep? Not just how much, but how efficient your sleep is to help you recover and be ready for the challenges of the day ahead.

That’s the promise of the Oura Ring. It’s been around for a while but the company behind it is really picking up steam and this week we talk with its CEO, Harpreet Singh Rai. He explains why the ring is a powerful device to help you reach your goals and keep you looking good while you do.

In this episode you’ll learn:

  • What heart rate variability is and why it’s an important health marker
  • What sets the Oura Ring apart from other fitness trackers
  • Tips to improve the quality of your sleep
  • Simple changes to make your sleep more efficient
  • How tracking your sleep may prevent the spread of illness

Links Mentioned in the show:

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Transcripts written by robots. Please forgive errors.

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[00:01:06] Jeremy: Wearable fitness trackers. Everyone's got one these days, or maybe more than one. I'm wearing two right now, along with some other fancy technology. So what are you tracking? Calories steps. The amount of water you drink, those are all good to keep an eye on, but are you keeping track of your sleep? Not just how much, but how efficient your sleep is to help you recover and be ready for the challenges of the day ahead.

[00:01:30] That's the promise of the aura. It's been around for a while, but the company behind it is really picking up steam and we had a chance to talk with its CEO, Harpreet Singh, rye about why the ring is a powerful device to help you reach your goals and look good doing it.

[00:01:45] Zach: 

[00:01:45] so Jeremy I'm, actually really excited about today's conversation because it's, about data.

[00:01:49] Jeremy: Yes. You're, you're a data nerd. You love the numbers.

[00:01:53] Zach: I do. I love the numbers, but I also like the way my Oura ring looks on my finger. That's collecting data.

[00:02:01] Jeremy: , it's the geekiest thing I wear two rings. One is my wedding ring. One is my oura ring. I don't know which I was more excited to get. Honestly, I, when I opened the box, when this thing arrived, I was like, oh man, this is going to be fun. I'm going to learn so much. This is going to be great.

[00:02:16] Literally these are the only two rings I wear. , And I can't believe how much I have learned about my habits, my sleep, and just the way I approach my day to day activities from a ring.

[00:02:32] Zach: Yeah. I only wear one ring and it's the oura there's a reason.

[00:02:37] Jeremy: Did you reply, did you replace your wedding ring with the Roe ring?

[00:02:40] Zach: I did, I did it, it, it serves two purposes now. , , my original wedding ring is made of titanium and it can't be resized. And when we bought it, my finger was significantly larger than it is now. So it literally falls off.

[00:02:55] So I haven't worn it in two

[00:02:56] Jeremy: Oh

[00:02:57] Zach: to begin with. So I was really excited to get a ring that symbolizes the love that I have for my wife. She's going to listen. She won't listen to the show and she'll never hear that.

[00:03:08] Jeremy: But in case, in case she can hear you in the other room. You got to say that out loud.

[00:03:12] Zach: and just tracking my heart rate, variability, tracking my sleep and giving me all of that lovely data that I just love.

[00:03:20] , so I can tweak , my habits and my routines to be a healthier person.

[00:03:25] Jeremy: I know we're going to get into this a little bit in our interview here in just a moment with the CEO of ARRA, we're going to talk with Harpreet Singh rye. But this wasn't an interview that we did, uh, about a week or so ago. So I'm curious, what's your number today? How'd you do today on your sleep, tracking?

[00:03:39] Zach: So my sleep number is actually 65 today.

[00:03:43] Jeremy: You're asleep. That's not your readiness score. That's your

[00:03:46] Zach: No. No, my readiness score is 77, which is good, but it is reminding me that I haven't slept well lately. And this week was the first week of my new job and I had to go to New York city and I was in a hotel room and I just wasn't sleeping well at all this week. So, and last night was the first night back in my own bed.

[00:04:06] And of course after the week I had, I had trouble falling asleep. So I didn't fall asleep last night until. , 11 o'clock and I get up at five 30 for CrossFit every morning. So I only slept for five hours last night.

[00:04:19] Jeremy: So I've learned something weird about my sleep routine. I've been trying forever to. Be the guy that gets up at six, goes to bed at 10, whatever. But when the kids don't fall asleep until 10, that becomes pretty much impossible. So I would like force myself to try and go to bed before like 11 before 12 and get up at six, seven.

[00:04:38] Something like that. Every time my numbers were low, I readiness is in the mid seventies. My sleep is,, low seventies., and I'm doing everything right. I got the, got the oils going. I got my, my, , heart rate strap on my wrist. And I got all these stem, like doing all these things to try and like throw it, taking the magnesium, everything terrible numbers this week, just to sort of by accident.

[00:05:01] I started going to bed at one o'clock in the morning, just staying up late, getting some work, done, doing stuff, and then sleeping in a little bit later, like eight or nine every day. My readiness is in the low nineties. My sleep is in the mid eighties. And I'm realizing like all of my life, I've enjoyed working at jobs where I work late, where, I can have some time at the end of the day, that's just mine to focus and not have to answer to a million different things.

[00:05:26] And so I've really learned from wearing this ring and experimenting that I really am a night person. That's what I'm going to do, my best work. I'm not going to do my best work at six or seven in the morning because I'm not going to have slept well. And I'm not going to have recovered well from my sleep.

[00:05:40] We're not here to sell you a. We're here to help you find ways to optimize your health, to take charge of your health and find ways to track what's working for you. And what's not, this has been an absolute game changer for me because I'm learning things from my behaviors.

[00:05:54] I can see on nights, when my heart rate, didn't do what I wanted it to do. I can look at the chart and I can learn, oh yeah. I had popcorn with a movie last night, too close to bedtime. And so my body was metabolizing that all night contributing to poor sleep.

[00:06:09] Just there's there's all these little tricks that this day. It's not, and it's not just raw data. Like it gives you advice. It says, Hey, here's your number. And based on this, take it easy today. Or based on this, go get it today. Go after whatever your goals are, your, your body recovered. Well, it's just such an incredible tool.

[00:06:25] And I could not be more grateful that, uh, that we've been able to experiment with it in the way that we have.

[00:06:31] Zach: If you're not getting enough sleep, there's only two things you can do. You can either go to bed earlier or you can get up later. And in my case, , I could easily adjust the time that I got up because my work is flexible. But I could never quite figure out how to get to bed on time.

[00:06:48] And that's my main problem to this day. Going to bed at a reasonable hour is really hard for me. So in order for me to get the most sleep or to get , the sleep that's adequate for me, I really got to sleep in a little bit later, even though I am usually passed out by nine o'clock, 

[00:07:03] Jeremy: but sleeping in a little later is getting up at five 30 in the morning to hit the gym.

[00:07:07] Zach: Well, when I lived in Seattle, I had to get up at four in order to get that, you know, 11 mile hour and a half commute out of the way.

[00:07:15] Jeremy: Right? Right. 

[00:07:16] Zach: So yes, I am sleeping in later by getting up at five 30 on the weekends, I get up at six 30.

[00:07:21] luxury

[00:07:22] Zach: Yes. Sleep in for a whole hour.

[00:07:24] Jeremy: Nice. All right. So what's under the hood. What's on this thing that we're wearing on our hand that is tracking everything we do and giving us all sorts of advice on how. Be a little healthier, live, a little better. And, uh, go after our goals in a more efficient way.

[00:07:38] We talked with Harpreet Singh, Ryan, he's the CEO of ring. And we asked him, what is this thing? What is the aura ring,

[00:07:48] Oura Interview - USB: And will the ordering helps you understand your health and yourself, , so you can be a better version of yourself. , I think most people would probably translate that if they're looking at a website into a wearable, but, uh, no, I think it, uh, um, we're all about understanding your health, , starting with sleep as the foundation of that.

[00:08:06] And. We help you understand , how to personalize and get to your health and figure out what works. that happened? On the outside, it just looks like a ring and have been questioning me because I'm trying to do pull-ups and, and barbell, With this ring on, just so attracts my activity.

[00:08:22] And, and then I have to explain that it's a, a tracker. So, so what is it doing, you know, under, under the hood here? What's it, what's a tracking, what's it not tracking? Yeah, sure. It's a great question. , so under the hood, there's a bunch of stuff. , just pulling me away if I can get into the weeds too much, but we got a bunch of LEDs in there,.

[00:08:38] That are emitting light to measure things like heart rate respiratory rate. You've got a bunch of temperature sensors in there too. So things like can tell if you're getting sick or even if you're a woman, , , you can actually see a lot of information relating,, your cycle.

[00:08:50] And a movement sensor, moving sensor, accelerometer, and gyroscope in there. And so, you know, really what we do is we, we focus on three things in the app. You see all that data translated into a bunch of different stuff into the app. And the app is, has three main scores, a sleep score, an activity score, and something that we call our readiness score.

[00:09:06] I think sleep and activity more straight forward. Uh, we can get into some of that in detail later, but the readiness scores is really, I think how most people find that out. And, and, you know, sort of how we achieve what our product does. So the readiness score looks at all of your data, sleep and activity, , over the last,, night.

[00:09:23] But then also prior two weeks, we give you sort of like a rolling balance to see how you're doing, and we check your sleep verse activity. , and then we look at probably the other half of the writing scores, physiological signals from your book. Think about them as digital biometrics. , so we're looking at like when your lowest heart rate happened, what was your things like heart rate variability, which is a very good sign of stress.

[00:09:44] , and, even things like respiratory rate and temperature, if you may be getting sick and we look at all that, and we sort of assess based on that, we have a patented formula, like how ready you are for the day. Um, and that may be, , ready to. Take your kids to a parent teacher conference meeting.

[00:09:58] That's going to be awesome. Or, or, or maybe, you know, ready to do,, 20 pushups or 20 pull-ups strict non kipping as well. So, readiness is, is, is that, that version of yourself that is better. Right. And whatever makes you, you. And so, when I was lifting a lot, yeah, sure.

[00:10:15] For me, I'm in physical readiness,, for me now, and being in more meetings than I am in the gym. It's like, Hey, okay, how ready am I for the team? , how ready mind to answer tough questions, how to make decisions quickly. , and so I think that's really how we think about better health, better recovery, better sleep, even better activity.

[00:10:32] Translates into you being a better version of yourself.

[00:10:35] Jeremy: , how ready are you for this interview? What, what's your number today?

[00:10:39] Oura Interview - USB: I don't know why don't we guess? What do you think so far? You just met me.

[00:10:41] Jeremy: Uh, you, you seem pretty dialed in. I'm going to say a upper right.

[00:10:46] Oura Interview - USB: Today is actually a upper seventies

[00:10:48] Jeremy: Oh, wow.

[00:10:50] Oura Interview - USB: and lower day than normal.

[00:10:51] Jeremy: Well, you're, you're wearing a good mask, then a nice job.

[00:10:55] Oura Interview - USB: it's the zoom filters. They're great at that.

[00:10:59] Jeremy: Um, so you you've already, uh, very well their readiness. That is the thing that, uh, you know, I already have a bad habit of my phone being the first thing I look at when I wake up in the morning, but this is feeding that addiction every single day, because I want to see how did I do last night? And that is the thing that I love about this is that it's, it's more than a tracker because it actually offers you feedback.

[00:11:19] It's not just, here's a number now do with that. What you will like, it actually provides feedback. And that has just been super valuable. I, I sometimes I'm surprised like today I thought, oh God, I woke up. I was just in pain, just felt horrible. My, my neck's been killing me for days. My sleep score was 85 and I was like, , that's crazy. And, and it is funny because once I started, he got up and got moving, I felt better. And I was like, okay, that, that makes more sense now, but 

[00:11:43] Oura Interview - USB: Totally. Yeah. 

[00:11:44] Jeremy: there can be moments where I can argue with it.

[00:11:46] Oura Interview - USB: it's the, the mind is a trippy thing. Um, so no pun intended, but, um, um, but I think, , there's, there's lots of reasons for that, Jeremy. So, , they actually did a study, I think it was at Stanford. , I've talked about this once with professor there, Dr. Jamie's ICER and they took all of these people, did real sleep lab, you know, hooked up to 16 wires overnight.

[00:12:06] They looked at all their remedies. If their sleep quality in a sleep lab, you know what we do in a much more convinced. , slightly less accurate, but way more convenient. , and they looked at how do you feel the next day they found there was no subjective correlation to the quality assessment of sleep versus what the individual actually thought.

[00:12:22] Jeremy: Funny.

[00:12:23] Oura Interview - USB: Yeah, I can do from everything. If you wake up and REM sleep, which is the later, half of your night, , you're in the middle of the dream, you can be groggy. And so it actually takes you a little bit, like you said, you felt fine after an hour or two. , it can be partly that, , the other reason too is like, No, your body is complicated.

[00:12:40] It's more complicated than,, your car, right. There's more wires. Believe it or not more electrons flowing, more protons, whatever it may be. Right. Definitely more fluids, different types. Right. And, um, I, I think , us trying to understand ourselves, it's hard to, it's really hard to know how you feel anymore.

[00:12:57] Right. We're kind of constantly bombarded. We're constantly distracted. And so getting the, the assessment just to sit back and relax, like, you know, Happening when he came in and relax watching TV because you're on your phone half the time and you're getting emails, slack texts. Right. And so I think, , the more, more digitally connected because society actually is harder to understand what's going on with yourself.

[00:13:15] And, uh, I think humans in general, the more and more, you know, it's almost like the matrix, the more and more you get plugged in. And it's like really hard to see what's going on inside that body. Right. You're just sitting in that chair. So I think, having. , data to look at, , gives you a better assessment.

[00:13:29] And then frankly, a lot of it though, is like, when you wake up, if you don't sleep for a long time, you're used to five, six hours and you go sleep for 12 hours. Even though you have a high sleep score, you're going to feel drowsy because your circadian rhythm now is just set to wake up at six hours.

[00:13:42] But it doesn't mean it was necessarily the wrong thing to do per se. Right? Like, yeah. Sleep for a long, long time. So there's tons of factors into that, but I have a lot of views and I've asked myself the same question as so many people that

[00:13:55] Jeremy: That's funny.

[00:13:56] Oura Interview - USB: you're, you're not alone.

[00:13:57] Yeah. how does heart rate variability play into this?

[00:14:00] It seems to be a lot of people are talking about that as a really important indicator of how healthy you are recovery and what you should be doing. Can you talk a little bit more about. Totally. , and it's a great question, Zach, and I think you're right, like the more and more science and literature comes up on heart rate variability.

[00:14:17] The more interesting it is, it's turning out to be into science and literature, potentially an early indicator for heart attack and stroke or a cardiac event to everything. How well are you physically going to perform in a neuromuscular activity? Like a strength lifting competition, or even an endurance activity?

[00:14:33] I'm actually, mark girl, teeny has put out a lot of stuff. He has this app called HOV for training, or isn't a graded, but he's very deep on that, that's sort of how maybe how people like use heart rate variability, like in those use cases. Again, getting a little bit back to readiness, right?

[00:14:48] That's part of the, , readiness score. , but heart rate variability itself , , what it really means is the variation and every single heartbeat. So I'm sitting here now I have a 77 right in this score today, you know, Jeremy has a way better readiness score. Um, but both our heart, let's say our heartbeats are at sort of 60 beats per minute and that's per minute.

[00:15:07] Every second is slightly different. Right? Right. So he, you know, he may be one, 1.1, 1.2 0.8 1.2. Okay. You may have a higher heart rate variability, which actually is counterintuitive. That means less stress or more readiness to perform the other way to think about it. It's like, it's almost like that car ride.

[00:15:25] Like, if you have that car idling and any, you know, you sort of have, I'm just using a stick shift, but like right. You, you have your foot on the gas, right. And you're ready to go and you can fit it. Right. Because you have that variability. You're not stopping from a cold start. When, when you have a low heart rate variability almost.

[00:15:40] Tight like that rigid standpoint where like you're not breathing in a meeting or some social encounter. Right. That happens to us all. I feel like right. Where like each beat is exactly the same. You're stressed and that's a sign of your audit. NAMEC nervous system stress. Right. So that fight or flight response.

[00:15:55] Right. So if you have high heart rate variability, . You're going to be able to think on your feet, , let's say that cheetah's coming down in the room right now. Right. I'm going to think. Or let's say you and Jeremy and Jeremy together, Zach, you're going to be like, I just need to push Jeremy down and get out of the way.

[00:16:09] Like, you're gonna be able to think on your feet, you're gonna be in a flow state. . You're going to be, you're going to have that sort of fluidity at that car, that high heart rate variability to be able to hit it. , so it's really just a sign of autonomic nervous system stress. And it's being used for so much, you know, at first it was just that mainly for strength training.

[00:16:26] Now it turns out even more for endurance. And even then, , heart attack and stroke. The other way I'll say is like, you know, if you have a stressful day, with someone you love what it's co-worker, whether it's a loved one, whether it's a kid, right? Even the stock market, you lose a lot of money in your portfolio.

[00:16:40] One day, like most people's heart rate variability, will be down the next day. , so it's just a good overall measure. , the more and more research that's done on it is stress. The interesting thing about aura, we're the only commercial wearable. , that tracks heart rate variability 99% correlated to an EKG overnight, sorry, 98, 98 0.4.

[00:17:00] We can give an incident if we had more time, but a lot of that has to do with just, simply the ring, , being on your fingers. You know, every hospital measures your heart rate and your SPO two and a finger, and those things are plugged in right to, you know, they have tons of power, but it just turns out that that signal on your finger, it's so much easier to see that pulse from your arteries, , that are on your finger versus like the veins that are back here.

[00:17:21] Same reason why, , if you're diabetic and you do, , take that land set and prick your finger, all this blood comes out from your face. If you put that on your wrist and no blood comes out, it turns out that blood is buried below the surface on the backside of your wrist, below muscle, a blow in a bunch of bone, you know, dark skin and hair like me.

[00:17:37] And so that signal is way weaker. And so, , we're able to measure continuously at the highest fidelity at, , EKG quality overnight.

[00:17:44] Jeremy: Is that the reason that it was designed as a ring is because of all the access to the finger or is it also just the fact that a ring is something you're much less likely to do?

[00:17:53] Oura Interview - USB: , it was a combination of exactly those things, chairman accuracy and convenience. , most wearables, I, I, you know, Kara Swisher said this once, you know, she she's a writer for the New York times and used to. , be at Fox or ricotta at both. I think actually. And so she, she used to call wearables.

[00:18:09] I still think does is wearables, like they're big, they're bulky or my wrist. She was like, I never wear these with a dress. Like they look ugly, right? Even if you're a man, , Now Chris Hemsworth rocking and orang, cause he has a sweet Rolex or a tag or something on his wrist.

[00:18:22] Right. So, um, you know, I think th this idea of it blends in it is convenient. The battery life is way longer, but, but really Jeremy at the end of the day, yeah, accuracy, that's what really, I think primarily drove her to. It was like, Hey, all this technology is interesting. It's going to have more and more health use cases.

[00:18:37] You know, we've, we've proven it a little bit with illness, , which we did a lot of research on during COVID women's health sleep. , and so, you know, we think there's so much more and that's where the wearable industry is going for all these different use cases. The thing that's gonna matter there, , when people's health on the line is, is accuracy.

[00:18:52] So that is primarily why we made it a rank. It just happens to look pretty good and have a nice long battery life too.

[00:18:58] Jeremy: You mentioned COVID. I know that that was an interesting time for the wearable industry, how did it affect you?

[00:19:05] Oura Interview - USB: I mean, it was always scary. It's like, I feel like any company, it didn't matter if you're a restaurant, it didn't matter. , if you're running a podcast, right. Your business was affected everyone. We knew it was affected during, during the pandemic and still is, or we're still in somewhat of a weird extended lockdown.

[00:19:19] , whatever it feels like. Um, so I think, you know, we reacted at the foundation. Of what's the heart of our core as a company, and that is our accuracy. , and so we, we were the first wearable to partner with an academic, , institution, research institution, partner with UCF. Um, we ended up donating 3000 rings to frontline healthcare workers across the country.

[00:19:39] And, you know, most say end of March, , and you know, people that are going to be in the COVID wards. And then we opened it up to all our whole audience that, Hey, anyone that is one submit their data. Like let's use this as a period of time. There's unfortunately, hopefully we're not alive. , when this happens going to be another pandemic, .

[00:19:57] And , what can we learn as a society to develop algorithms and data on to keep each other safe? And so, yeah, we, you know, we ended up partnering with UCLA, had over 70,000 people participate in the tempered study and they had data published back in December. And what they showed was basically, of the first 50 cases they analyze and tore down it's up on the internet and scientific paper.

[00:20:17] That's actually open access. , basically 38 of those first 50 people. They could see significant changes, three days in advance of anyone feeling symptoms. So your data's changing, four 76% of the people three days before he gets sick. And then this study, the next 14% were one to two days before you feel symptoms.

[00:20:36] 10% was the same day you feel symptoms. And so, you know, I think that technology, if you think about it, this stuff spreads through humans, just like everything. Flu season, does it, you know, with too many, uh, and, and it's most of the time we're not spreading it on purpose. We don't, I don't think all of us are evil.

[00:20:51] We don't want to get each other sick and, um, you know, just the ability to know, and then take precautions in your own hand, take health impairment in your own hands to keep each other safe. And so. When we did that. And when we got that, , research into action with GCSF, I mean, that really led to like a lot of our partnerships last year.

[00:21:10] So, you know, the MBA was the first sports organization to like go back during a pandemic and a bubble environment and WNBA as well. And so we partnered with them because they looked at us and other wearables and, , they have a really thorough wearable validation committee that looked at all that data and was just like, holy cow, we're impressed.

[00:21:25] Same with USC. Do you see performance Institute? Does some bad-ass research? Um, you know, Dunkin French's is beast. He used to work at, he was SNC coach at Notre Dame. Um, you know, he looked at every other wearable out there and, red bull racing, NASCAR, a bunch of other organizations have chosen us for that use.

[00:21:42] And we've, we've heard it from so many of our customers. , I had someone who called me, , and just one of the customers that happened to, I don't know many of them, , , and he was like, look, I got to tell you some. And this was like right after Christmas. And he was like, I, , saw my readiness score, hit a 45 or 50, you know, he's normally in the eighties does MMA, , really fit guy.

[00:22:02] , and he was like, I was heading home to see my dad. Who's like 90 years old and immune compromised. And it was like, you know, for Christmas and he saw it and he was like, I need to go get tested. Cause he was just like, you know, afraid what if my deck and you know, he was positive and he was just like, dude, if I went home, My dad probably would have gotten this and would have made it.

[00:22:20] And he was like, I had no symptoms. And then, you know, two or three days later, he was like, totally knocked out. Um, yeah. So we've, we've just, you know, we've heard that from hundreds, if not thousands of our customers, and it's not just this year, we've seen it before, but obviously the COVID is much more severe, , and affecting more people on spreading faster.

[00:22:38] So yeah, I think that ended up being, . Our team just reacted saying like, we gotta do what we always do. And , learn how the human body works so we can live better lives as people. Um, and you know, we just shifted and adapted to that environment. I will say, did help that we had strong confidence there because we're one of the only wearables that has temperature sensors.

[00:22:56] Jeremy: Hm.

[00:22:56] Oura Interview - USB: No from day one. So that's something, we've, we've used our data again for people getting sick. We never like put that much focus on it, you know, versus all the other things like, you know, Zach wants me to track kipping bullets first, pull ups or restrict pull-ups and do do that yet. But one day we will.

[00:23:13] Um, and so, you know, I think we just, we shifted, we were like, this is changing, changing environment. Uh, this is where we can help with, with our mission, our vision. So let's do it. So with all the data that you've collected , and that you've looked at, I'm curious, like, what is, you know, the one or two things that, that has really surprised you with all of this?

[00:23:32] Like what insights have you seen, , in the population. Yeah. That really surprised you and, you know, positive, negative way, what, whatever, whatever. I wasn't gonna say that Jeremy gets better readiness scores in you, but that would just be creepy.

[00:23:46] Jeremy: Every day, every day.

[00:23:49] Oura Interview - USB: No, um, uh, uh, you know, where GDPR compliance, so we can't look up any individual user, but we do see data aggregated across a lot of users. Um, wow. Yeah. There's so much in that data. I mean, you know, I think we're, what's so cool about it is if you think about the scale we're at like, you know, Basically like, you know, every week we're seeing three to 4 million nights, 5 million nights a data, which is, which is cool in itself because it's just like so much data that's coming in.

[00:24:18] Um, a couple of basic common things we've seen, people who eat late, have a huge impact on their, on their sleep and redness you, but

[00:24:27] Jeremy: Oh

[00:24:27] Oura Interview - USB: not in your head. So you've probably

[00:24:29] Jeremy: is. It is amazing how often I will see a poor number and I go, yeah, I ate later than I normally do. That's totally.

[00:24:36] Oura Interview - USB: And it's like one of those things, Jeremy, I feel like that normally you wouldn't think about feeling worse the next day. You just sort of get up and get plugged back into your routine and you just sort of, you know, you wouldn't really think about it. Um, so I'd say some of the biggest observations we've heard from people and we've seen the data because, you know, we do have people to have tags, uh, the tag, a lot of this stuff, and also we're automatically identifying a lot of it, but, but basically, yeah.

[00:24:57] Yeah. You know, late caffeine, alcohol, but really like eating is just like, you know, some things that we do that we don't realize, like how much it impacts. How we recover and how we feel the next day. So that's like, low-hanging fruit, like table stakes that we can learn. , and ironically, we've seen that culturally almost like everywhere, like every country, it doesn't really matter.

[00:25:17] Like there's like perceptions about Spain, but the data would suggest that, Italy, France and us are, so it was sort of all in the same boat. Um, wow. Yeah, but I think, I think those three are really interesting. We do find that people who are most consistent and it makes sense to something Jeremy brought up.

[00:25:33] Yeah, a lot of us sort of get social jet lag, you know, the weekends you sleep in, you wake up later, but then that actually affects your data. , and how you feel. And so being just consistent, the way hormonally, we were designed as humans, to rise and fall with some type of rhythm or the sun and the moon, .

[00:25:49] If you're more consistent, you generally have better data in the sense that, you know, Lower resting heart rate, um, like basic things like that. You wouldn't think that if I slept at the same time that had an impact actually on my overall heart rate, well, it turns out actually, you know, I forget the exact stat, but every time there's daylight savings, change, heart rate, heart rate attacks go up by like 20%.

[00:26:10] , so, you know, just on that one day versus the prior day, so being consistent with your time helps, helps so much. , you know, I think we did see really interesting data during COVID. You know, people in the beginning actually being their resting heart rates, actually going down, like seeing people sleep better, that, just getting into a little bit more of that routine and schedule like ended up working out better for a lot of people.

[00:26:32] But then as COVID went on and even during early stages of the pandemic,, some people you could tell it's totally taken a toll on their data. And, and now that it's kept going on longer, you're, you're definitely starting to see that more. We have put out data in the past on our blog, but, , I know we're due for an update. , but it also just keeps changing because the state of, that we're all in as a, as a country and as a, as a global population right now,

[00:26:54] Jeremy: Yeah. Yeah, I'm curious what you do every day to, to try and score well, do you, do you have, uh, a wellness routine or are you just back to back in zoom meetings?

[00:27:04] Oura Interview - USB: well, it definitely feels like zoom airlines right now. It's right. You've got like your two by two tray where you get your food and you're on, you know, you're looking at the little screen, but, um, no, so, uh, I have two cups of coffee every day. I have both before 10:00 AM. , so I make sure I don't drink coffee after 10, just given the half-life of caffeine.

[00:27:20] , I try to eat five hours before I go to. That, that makes such a huge difference. , the way I train and work out is more like balance that load and recovery, , I don't try it and need to go hard all day every day. It definitely had a lot of injuries in the past doing that, but it's so cool to see that in the data and then actually make better progress, , like by, you know, I guess working smarter, but doing less and achieving them more.

[00:27:44] Um, I think the other thing I do is like, if I, honestly, if I am stressed out. , I see it in my data, you know, , we are a fast growing startup, you know, like, I don't even know how many people, 300 plus people now. I can't like every week I just can't keep track. But like, you know, I think when things do get overwhelming, it's like, Hey, take a day off.

[00:28:02] . Take it easy. , just go clear your mind and walk for a bit. Right. Meditate is something I've found that helps me. , and so even if it's just five minutes, we do have a meditation feature in the app. And you know, you can track your heart rate variability during that session. Um, and that's, that's actually interesting.

[00:28:18] Another cool thing that like, The better and longer, you meditate generally the better you can get it sort of raising your heart rate variability and lowering your resting heart rate. So you, you can sort of, you know, mind over matter. , really there, there is that sort of, mind, body reaction and connection for sure.

[00:28:35] , but those are some of the things I do. Uh, I don't, I don't really drink much, used to drink more. Hopefully my mom's not listened to this, but, um, I think, um, you know, I partly. Really, because I just found out how much it affects me the next day. It felt like I was having fun tonight to Rob it from.

[00:28:52] And, um, it, it just, it was something that I was like, wow, I didn't realize even one glass or two glasses of alcohol. I can do that. Um, you know, so I still have fun when I'm with people. I want to be drinking with, you know, socially, but, limited and careful about it. So those are some of the big things, Zach, I don't know.

[00:29:10] I don't know. What if, what YouTube found, if anything, that's been helpful.

[00:29:14] I can say for myself, I don't think I realized, , how little sleep I was getting and it was quality sleep. Right. I was, I was going to bed, but I was reading for two hours or not falling asleep. So, changing that actual fall asleep time.

[00:29:32] , made a huge difference. And then of course the eating, right. If I, if I eat late, I could see a noticeable difference. , so those two things alone made a huge difference in the way I feel every day.

[00:29:44] Jeremy: for me pre or a ring. Uh, I had the same expense. I literally, I haven't, I haven't drank alcohol in four years because it was the same thing I woke up for the last time feeling like I feel horrible. Because of last night and literally haven't, haven't touched it since, so same thing there.

[00:29:57] And then, , I, for me, it's kind of, I'm suffering today a little bit because yesterday. I went to go try out the new lawn mower and it turned into three hours of yard work. And so I tend to do that where like, I go really hard and then I'm like, okay, now I'm just going to be hurting for three days. And so I've sort of been trying to just even out , my physical, , routine as well.

[00:30:15] I know we're up against the clock. Where do we learn more about the aura ring?

[00:30:19] Oura Interview - USB: Um, luckily we got a website it's just a . And you can find, find a bunch about us there.

[00:30:29] Jeremy: And we'll link to that on our website as well. This has been awesome. Thank you so much for all the work you're doing and thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate it.

[00:30:36] Oura Interview - USB: Yeah. And honestly, thanks for both of you. I think,, frankly, it takes people eventually. Tell other people about stuff and I think the way you guys do it, the uplifting way, the fun way. Right. And it makes it, you know, it's, it's spreading positive information about health or whatever the topic may be.

[00:30:53] Right. And so I just think that, you know, I've always found podcasts as a source of information to like, oh, I feel like I found someone else that I feel like I can trust and learn fun, you know? And I think we need more of that out there in the world. So I appreciate both of you, you know, doing what you do as well.

[00:31:09] Jeremy: thank you. That's that's totally, our mission is just to make this journey a little less lonely for people that are struggling. Like, so thank you. Thank you so much. I know you have another call really means a lot. Thank you you for taking the time.

[00:31:18] Oura Interview - USB: Thanks Jeremy. Thanks Zach.


[00:31:20] Jeremy: All right. I love doing these interviews. Whenever we get a chance to do them. This has been one of my most favorite Harpreet Singh, rye, CEO of our ring. , really enjoyed that and learned a ton and glad to know that I'm a, that I'm beating him on, on a regular basis on my sleep score.

[00:31:35] That that makes me feel good.

[00:31:37] Zach: Yeah. You are also not a CEO of a

[00:31:39] Jeremy: also not a CEO of a major company with loads and loads of money at stake. So I guess he's got that going for him, 

[00:31:45] Zach: Yeah, exactly. He can take a couple of points off there.

[00:31:48] Jeremy: You can find out more about the ring, uh, through our website and the There's a link to our ring on the show notes for this episode.

[00:31:55] Zach: So I love the, I love the part of that interview. , when we were talking about, the ring actually alerting you, if you're getting sick or something's wrong with your body. Um, I actually experienced that within the first month of having the ring on my finger. , we were on vacation and I am notorious for working really hard.

[00:32:15] And then when I go on vacation and stop working,

[00:32:17] Jeremy: Hmm.

[00:32:18] Zach: I always get sick. Cause like my boss. Decompress as it goes, oh, we can take all the defenses down now. And I, I always get sick when I'm on vacation and it usually hits me for like three or four days. So like for going on vacation for a week, it's, , half to more than the vacation.

[00:32:37] Jeremy: to interrupt, but you do fly and you do go to theme parks that are German Fest, that hell hole. So that might have something to do with it too.

[00:32:44] Zach: Nope. Nope. Never. It would never have anything to do with that. But this particular vacation that we went on, we went to Cape Cod. We rented a house was at the beach. So none of that, none of that applies to the situation. Um, yeah, but again, like my wife will tell you, it usually knocks me down pretty hard for like three or four days, whatever it is in my room.

[00:33:08] It notified beyond one day where I didn't feel anything. I was totally fine. My baseline was normal, but it was like your temperatures a little bit higher. Your heart rate variability was off your resting heart rate was off. You probably need a day to rest. And so I looked at it and I was like, okay, I will, you know, I'll rest today, which I really didn't.

[00:33:33] But I didn't go overboard. Like I was planning on going for like a 20 mile bike ride. I didn't do that. , just like went down to the beach and sat there. And then the next morning I, I woke up and I didn't feel good. It wasn't, you know, horrible. And I was like, okay, we'll take the rings advice. And I just sat there on the couch and watch TV all day drank a bunch of fluid.

[00:33:53] And by the next day I was fine.

[00:33:55] Jeremy: That's so interesting.

[00:33:56] Zach: By taking it easy on that day. When I noticed when the ring noticed there was an issue, I think I saved myself from, losing half of my vacation.

[00:34:05] Jeremy: sure. It didn't you mentioned that too, because my kids have been sick all week. , one of them came down with flu like symptoms that honestly we were a little frayed could be COVID. So we went and did the test and all that and she's she's fine. No, no, COVID here. Yeah. Being with her and comforting and she's six, you know, I can't be on the other side of the door.

[00:34:22] Like hope you're okay in there. So I was just like, I'm exposing myself to something I could very well get whatever this is, cold flu, COVID whatever. And I kept thinking of his story and how I wonder if my ring will tell me, I wonder if I'll wake up and my number will be in the toilet or I'll get that alert that says, Hey, take it easy.

[00:34:41] Something, something weird is going on. But every morning I've woken up with numbers in the eighties and night. I felt fine. And there's something even psychologically where I'm like the ring says, I'm fine. So I'm fine. And so from, from like a mindset point of view, you know, if you, if you believe the idea that you can think your way to better help, I'm waking up seeing that everyday going, Nope, I'm good.

[00:35:02] I'm going to fight off whatever, whatever she's got whatever's in the air. So it is, it's just such a powerful tool in so many ways. And I think that, you know, that story really illustrates that. Something that I can't wait to see how it advances. I know other companies now are starting to incorporate that readiness score into their tracking devices because there's so much value in having the numbers determined or having the numbers evaluated for you rather than getting the raw data of here's how much sleep you got and here's how much activity you got today.

[00:35:29] Well, that doesn't tell me if it's working and how to, how to make that a more regular part of my life.

[00:35:34] Zach: Yeah, but like you said,, like this one's in ring forms, so you get better data, you get longer life. So I, I wear a watch to the tracks, all of this stuff. I get maybe day and a half out of my watch, and then I need to take it off for like the entire night. To let it recharge.

[00:35:52] Whereas I know that the rings are waterproof and you can wear them into the shower, but I actually take mine off and charge it while I shower every morning. That's all I ever do. And it stays fully charged. So just that, you know, 10 minutes in the shower once a day is all it

[00:36:08] Jeremy: And it really, I think it, I think it charges in like an hour. I do mine once a week. It's usually on Sunday and it's like, I'll get the alert, better charge this. I throw it on there. You know, when I'm sitting at the computer working for an hour or whatever, I'm like, oh, let's go put it back on. So

[00:36:20] Zach: But the cool part about this though is, and this is, I haven't seen this in any other tracker when it's done charging it alerts you on your phone, right

[00:36:29] Jeremy: I haven't noticed that.

[00:36:32] Zach: on my phone. It alerts me. So usually like, I'll take my watch off to go charge it. And then three days later, I remember to put it back on 

[00:36:40] Jeremy: Right. Totally. 

[00:36:43] Zach: Not three days, but it's definitely, we lose a whole day of data. And, but my ring, like an hour later, when it's fully charged, I get a little ping on my phone that says your ring is fully charged.

[00:36:53] I'm like, oh yeah. Right. I got to go put that thing back on.

[00:36:55] Jeremy: That's either, that's either setting, I have turned off or that's an Android thing, but I'm going to look kinda that. So, 

[00:37:01] Zach: Nah, it's probably a setting because I can't imagine Android being better than an iPhone

[00:37:06] Jeremy: And I turn off, I hate alerts, so I try and turn them all off, but that one I'm going to turn on. That's that's invaluable. I hate, I hate taking it off.

[00:37:12] Cause I hate losing the data. I hate losing that hour. I'm like, I want to know. 

[00:37:17] Zach: So if you're interested in, Tracking your health to the next level. We definitely highly recommend this ring. It, it gives you great information , to make changes to your daily habits and routines, that are going to be beneficial for a positive long-term healthy life. 

[00:37:32] Jeremy: Absolutely. I know it's made a big change in my life and, uh, looking forward to seeing what other, , changes I'll be able to make in my life , to utilize this information to my advantage. If you would like to do the same, there is a link to, , the aura ring on our website, the while you're there, please do subscribe on whatever podcast player you're using.

[00:37:49] Sign up for the newsletter, and of course, follow us on social media. Thank you so much for listening. We will be back next week on Wednesday with a brand new episode at the fitness doctor.

[00:37:59] Zach: See everyone.

Harpreet Singh RaiProfile Photo

Harpreet Singh Rai


Harpreet Singh Rai is the Chief Executive Officer of Oura and a member of its board. His purpose is to be part of a team that is committed to improving health and wellbeing. He is responsible for Oura’s vision and strategy and guides decisions that ensure the organization's financial health. Before Oura, Harpreet was a portfolio manager who led the technology, media, and telecom portfolio at Eminence Capital for nine years. He began his career working in Morgan Stanley’s merger and acquisitions group. Harpreet studied electrical engineering at the University of Michigan.