Oct. 21, 2020

The Wisdom of Love, Loss, and Fear with Gary John Bishop

The Wisdom of Love, Loss, and Fear with Gary John Bishop

When the shit hits the fan, many of us don’t know what to do—whether it’s surviving a pandemic, losing a job, or just feeling a lack of purpose. We need wisdom to help us move forward. While the internet is full of seemingly good advice, it...

When the shit hits the fan, many of us don’t know what to do—whether it’s surviving a pandemic, losing a job, or just feeling a lack of purpose. We need wisdom to help us move forward. While the internet is full of seemingly good advice, it isn’t helping us actually change our lives.

Suffering in silence, trying to stay positive while gritting your teeth, or promising yourself that you’ll never do that again is not the solution to these problems.  That’s according to our guest this week, bestselling author and personal development expert, Gary John Bishop.

In his best-selling book UnFuck Yourself, Bishop taught millions of readers how to silence the negative, self-sabotaging voice in their head in order to thrive. In his new book and audiobook - Wise As Fuck, he redefines what it means to be wise and shows how to tackle problems and improve our lives and those of others.


In this episode, he shares lessons to make a positive impact on the world as well as insights to inspire us in the 4 areas we need it most: love, loss, fear, and success.

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Jeremy: [00:00:00] This is the fit mess with Zach and Jeremy. It says it right here on the back of his book, whatever your shit storm. And there's at least one thing is clear. No one showed you how to handle this. And you're painfully ill-equipped until now. That is a great teaser for the brand new book wise as fuck.

It's written by Gary, John Bishop. One of our favorite guests. We love having him on. Fortunately he writes lots and lots of books, so we get lots of opportunities. Tons of wisdom and advice from him that is so applicable, especially in the modern times that we're living in. And I can't wait to share this conversation with you, but so much of Gary's work so much of what he writes about is about getting out of your comfort zone, taking action and not letting your, your limiting beliefs hold you back.

From living the life you want to live. 

Zach: [00:00:50] So tell me, Jeremy, what'd you do this week? That was uncomfortable. 

Jeremy: [00:00:53] Sit in this chair. 

Zach: [00:00:57] Wow. That's pretty lame. No seriously. What'd you do this week that made you uncomfortable? 

Jeremy: [00:01:04] Well, it's funny. I am dealing with some physical pain. My back currently hurts. It went out about an hour ago, so I'm trying to power through this, but.

But prior to that I've been dealing with, uh, I've mentioned on the show, probably ad nauseum. I just got these injuries that are nagging. And meanwhile, you know, the COVID weight keeps piling up. I feel disgusting. I feel horrible. And so this week I decided, you know what? And I need to give credit where credit's due.

My wife sort of acknowledged that in my day. I have not been carving out time for myself. I have not been going, you know, I need time to meditate yoga. Meal prep. Something like nothing's for me, it's take care of everybody else. So she's been giving me an hour every day to just do what I need to do. And so I decided, well, I can ride a bike, so let's do that.

So a couple of times I got on my bike and went for a ride and went much farther than I thought I could. Um, and quick shout out to our sponsor here. I actually ran a, rode my bike over to the, uh, uh, the beverage center. To get some non-alcoholic beers from athletic brewery, because my fridge has been empty as I've also complained about on this show.

Um, so that, that problem was solved. Got in some exercise and just doing that, like just getting outside and sort of experiencing a taste of sort of what was normal has helped me. Mentally. And, but the hard part is like, with most of this stuff is just getting the motivation to take that first step and go out the door.

Right. So that was, that was something that I did to break my cycle, my comfort cycle of just hiding in my house, hiding from the world and trying to do something active. I have to get my life back on 


Zach: [00:02:46] nice. Good for you. 

Jeremy: [00:02:48] And now it hurts. How about you? What have you, what are you doing to get uncomfortable?

Zach: [00:02:54] Um, I'm uncomfortable right now watching the facial, the facial features you're making into this looks uncomfortable for you. It 

Jeremy: [00:03:03] hurts a lot. My, my 

Zach: [00:03:04] empathetic side is screaming right now. 

Gary John Bishop: [00:03:09] Um, 

Zach: [00:03:10] today, the parking lot for when I go into work, I have to go through the temperature screening and stuff, and I went into work and I was coming out and I was going across the parking lot.

And there was somebody, you know, driving. So, you know, in New York you run to get out of the way hit you. They don't slow down. So I, you know, jog four paces and my ankle went 

Jeremy: [00:03:31] again. Yeah, getting all this awesome. This 

Zach: [00:03:37] sucks. Anyway, so now, um, you know, my ankle's hurting again. I'm uncomfortable, but like I had, I had to cancel, I couldn't go to my workout cause there was a whole bunch of running involved and I definitely need to give this a couple of days.

Yeah. Um, 

Jeremy: [00:03:52] so 

there's a, there's 

an interesting dichotomy there. One is, you know, while I'm injured. Uh, part of, part of my motivation to do something was our conversation that we're going to get to in just a minute with Gary, John Bishop, about not just sitting there waiting for perfection, not just sitting there, waiting for life, to come to you and land on your lap and go, here's this tremendous opportunity all too often, we have to just decide I'm taking action.

And then what that action is is of course dependent on the situation. But there's also a time for what you're saying, where I'm hurt and the action I need to take right now. Is non-action is to, to rest, to give my body the time it needs so that when I'm ready to take that action, my body will do what I need it to do.

Zach: [00:04:35] Right. Last time I hurt my ankle. I was like, Oh, my ankle hurts. And then one week went by and two weeks went by three weeks, went by finally, it was five or six weeks before I got back into the gym. Right. And it was. Um, it was my ego that got in the way, because I didn't want to go to the gym and, you know, get on the bike when everyone else was running or, you know, get on the bike when people were doing jump ropes or something like that.

Right. I didn't want to be that guy. Yeah. And, uh, you know, talking to, um, the owner of the gym, uh, I like explain that to him and he be like, let me have it. And he's like, that's the ego getting in the way, man? Yep. I was like, You're absolutely right. So here I am. But in this case, I'm going to give it two days because it really hurts.

I don't want to damage it further and then I'll be careful, but well, 

Jeremy: [00:05:27] in a bum ankle, stop you from doing some setups. Won't stop you from doing some. Push-ups doing some modified yoga. Like there are things you can still do. And believe me, I'm preaching to myself here. This is what I've been telling myself for two months.

Well, I know you can work through this pain by doing other things, but that pain is such an easy, but 

Zach: [00:05:49] yeah. And I'm an all or nothing guy. So if I can't do something to the fullest extent that I want to do it, I won't do it at all. 

Jeremy: [00:05:57] Right. Yeah. Yeah. Infection doesn't get in the way of perfection getting in the way of the good.

Zach: [00:06:02] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So yeah, no, it's been an uncomfortable week from a multiple levels, but you know, it's. It was timed really well that, you know, I'm thankful that Gary, John Bishop pumps out books like crazy. Cause we just talked to him and we get to talk to him again on this new book that he just put out.

So the timing of it was great because as I. You know, hurt my ankle or had to, you know, prep for this meeting. I just kept thinking to myself that this is okay, like this being uncomfortable, like this is growth. This is okay. This is important. It's all right. Exactly. 

Jeremy: [00:06:43] And so that's what we talked to him about.

His new book is called wise as fuck simple truths to guide you through the shit storms of life. It is a colorful conversation as always. We love talking to him, but we started off talking about how he's like Hamilton. He writes like he's running out of time. We just talked to him a few weeks ago, but his recent audio book, and now he's got this out.

How does he do it?

Did you just not have room to fit this into the last book? How'd you do this so quick? 

Gary John Bishop: [00:07:13] I'm always, um, believe it or not, as I'm releasing this book, I'm about halfway through and other 

Jeremy: [00:07:19] ones. I, 

Gary John Bishop: [00:07:21] I, you know, part of my thing has been like, I've kind of like this body of work that I want to get out to people.

So I've known what that body of work is for a number of years. So, um, I'm at work, you know, producing that and producing that. And then I'm also putting together three other books, um, kind of brainstorming and laying them out for myself. Um, cause it's like water, she's got to get it out before I die, you know, like it's gone.

So that's the game. It's it's uh, it's, it's getting on a paper before I depart this morning. 

Jeremy: [00:07:58] I love it. Well, let's talk about kind of the focus of it. Obviously wisdom is a, is the key, uh, is the focus of this conversation. Let's talk about the importance of wisdom and what it means to be wise as fuck, right?

Gary John Bishop: [00:08:10] So I I've often have been troubled at times by like, why can, how can I pet knowledge up? But it makes no difference to me. Right? Like how come I can read a fucking book and do a course or something. And somebody tells me all this stuff and like, Oh, that sounds really fucking good. And then nothing, I just do the same shit that I've always done.

Like what, what is that like? Why. What's the deference. When does it become wisdom? For me was a question. And then, but what's the difference between knowledge and Western? Like, how do I get myself? How do I learn these things, first of all, and then how can I take that and make it wisdom? And the more I looked at it and I looked at my own life that the things that, that I had learned that became a wisdom for me, that is something that I learned that when I applied it to my wife, It laid out a pathway for me, it told me some truths that maybe I hadn't seen or I've been ignoring or I've been pretending to.

But, but, but it was unmistakable. Like it told me a certain truth. So, and this book, I talk about a piece of wisdom that I gave people in the first book that I ever wrote in the thing that I said was you have the life that you're willing to put up with now. That's kind of confronting group of words right there.

It's kind of like, Oh shit, like, Whoa, what, like now, you know, argue with it and I'm going to resist it. And I'm like, but if I apply that to my life, if I look at it like, well, I have the finances that I'm going to put up on. I have the career that I'm willing to put out. Whether I have the body that I'm willing to put up with it.

I have a love life. It's like, Oh crap. Like it's starting to tell me some proofs here, but it doesn't necessarily tell me specifically what did they do, but it will show up what I need to do. Like it'll bring it. Tell me. Yeah. And so that was really the point of this blog was to look at what are some of the things that.

That I've, I've sent a doctor. There's a wisdom that I, and adopted it in such a way that I don't even have to think about it. Like, it's just there for me. How did I do that? How did that work out for me? What are the things that I feel as if would resonate with people the most? And that's really what I've been able to deal with.

Weiser's focus to get people this insight and how to turn, what, you know, into your real bonafide wisdom, and then present you with some wisdoms that. You don't have to believe. You don't even have to agree with it, but if you apply them and you're looking at your life, they will talk to you and you will see things there.

They, you perhaps hadn't considered. 

Zach: [00:10:51] I had a therapist once who told me that I wasn't changing because I was too comfortable and that I wasn't uncomfortable enough to actually. Do anything about it? It was that moment where I realized I needed to really dig deep. And one of the things that struck me when I was reading your book is you mentioned, you know, the word mess and messy a lot, and our show is the fit mess.

And we totally recognize that shit is messy, really, really messy. So I wanted to get your take on what messy means to you in this 

Gary John Bishop: [00:11:22] context. Yeah. When you're in your life, nothing's linear. Like it's all just, I mean, really it's this, like this check out your stuff, you know, like that's over here and not there.

And then it was my brother fucking my biceps, and then this fucking, you know, my relationship with my tax and then my job and it doesn't see me connect. Like it's yours. And so what we're doing is, and I talk about this in a booklet. We compartmentalize it's like, well, this part here works in nonprofit deal works.

And then this part doesn't work in and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And so I spend my life because that part works. I just kind of ignore that and I'll focus on this thing that I think as it working until I see that it's never going to work, they don't just ignore it or pretend it doesn't exist. They'll chop it out and pretend that I wasn't interested anyway.

Right. And. But what, what we, what we fail to see is the underneath, all of that, all of that is yet all of it. So people like to think this idea that, well, my work life is great, but my home life sucks. And what you don't realize is that it all sucks because that's not. So none of it gets to be as great as it could be.

Not, you don't get to fulfill on your potential scenarios. There. You know, th the, the example that I've been kind of thinking about recently, like you've got a leaky refrigerator and all you do is keep in vast and, and better mops.


Zach: [00:12:59] That's awesome. 

Gary John Bishop: [00:12:59] Fucking mom, I've got swear to God. This is the mop past the thing sounds in your single fucking get good. Your refrigerator.

Oh my God. I love that.

So I, so I want people to get on gamete. I want them to take a look. I want to be get like, yeah, it's all you like, but yeah, why this and why that, and, and it's that compartmentalizing? It's that like, trying to fix a little something over here without ever really being at the source of it. Is, is what creates that mass and that confusion.

Whereas if you were really at the source of it, usually go out, like, yeah, there's this thing that goes on with me. And when you put it out there in life, it'll work there, there, there, and there, but it won't work they're there. And so instead of going in there and they're letting me get back to this thing, that's going on with me, this whole approach that I've got, maybe that's another way for me to.

To kind of point myself in life, such that a lot of this would start to make sense and ultimately work. 

Jeremy: [00:14:07] Yeah. A lot of times we, uh, we look outside for the answers. A lot of times we look outside just for escape. We get online, social media, whatever, and we find all the flowery memes that you write about that have all this, what you described as bad wisdom.

And can you just for folks who haven't read the book yet, describe what bad wisdom is and why it's so toxic 

Gary John Bishop: [00:14:28] for us. There's so much of it. Right. I mean, there's too much shit, right. That we have a grade is good shit. Right, right. No shit. So, so I mean, I mean stuff like, you know, um, what's for you won't go past you.

Yes. It fucking well. It'll fly right past you, you won't even fucking notice because you weren't paying attention 

Jeremy: [00:15:00] as you're looking at your phone.

Gary John Bishop: [00:15:04] Right? Like everything happens for a reason. No one fucking does it. Now, how can you get from the universe will provide no one fucking

to the guy that just got hit by a plane. Was that a university? My noise anyway. So, so I want people to like, started yelling. Most of the stuff that gets put out there it's really only designed to make you feel better, but the pile that you're N none of it is designed to get you out of that pile. It's all designed to kind of have you be like, Oh yeah, breathe right.

Better for breathing. Well, of course you're fucking breathing and alive. So I want, I want people to get, like, when what's the, when, when you engage with wisdom, from the kind of perspective that I'm giving you, it gives you a truth, but it's not always a comfortable one it's in its onset. You know, my view is the truth is unsettling, right?

The nature of truth is, is violence. It does violence to the status. Right. It cuts through it exposes. Right. And it's like, Oh shit, like, damn right. Fuck. I had those moments in my life. Like what I was, I remember when I first started to do personal growth where it, and I was like, Oh fuck. It's me right 


Damn it. That was the first kind of harsh part of it. And then it was like, Oh, It's me. Right? Because shit, I can do something about it. Right. Cause it's me. It's not you. Yeah. This is amazing. Cause I don't need you to do shit. Right. Um, so that's that's to me, that's good wisdom. It disrupts it. We organizes it.

It does violence to your. You're your you're apathy, your resignation. You're you're, you're stuck next. 

Jeremy: [00:17:14] I find a lot of comfort in your work. I'm curious. And I saw a picture of the other day. You posted a picture of your very beaten up copy of your book. Do you, do you ever have to go back and refer to your own work to sort of get back on track?

Gary John Bishop: [00:17:26] I do all the fucking times. I do it because I'm like, because I cannot puts me back in that. Kind of paradigm of thinking that I was in, when I was putting that together and then exposes like a world to me, I'm like, Oh yeah, I'll fuck you up. And then when I see that thing in the context of the life that I have right now, they're often reveals other things to me.

So it would be, you know, very arrogant of me to be somebody who like, Oh yeah, you guys should all read this shit, man. I don't get it. And just because I'm writing, it doesn't mean to say it doesn't resonate with me, but I do find. That I've got to get a little gap at time and then I can go back and then that, then the brain starts stowing again.

I'm like, Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Well, you know, and I don't often, like there's a part in my second book stop that we're not yet. When I talk about some of my own internal beliefs, like, uh, like my beliefs, that stomach and fundamentally my, my machinery, you know, has concluded that people don't care. Um, and it's, it's deeply resonates with me.

And so whenever I'm upset about something, I'll sit down for a minute and say, all right, now I'm just reminded myself that I'm triggered by you, that people don't care. And I'll find that I'm triggered by the same shit again, like there I go. 

Jeremy: [00:18:51] Yeah. 

Gary John Bishop: [00:18:52] And so it's great. It's a great, it's a great way of, you know, if you can't master yourself, you'll never match the life that you.

Period. And it's not like you master yourself, like you're a done deal. It's it's like, you're constantly herding cats. Right. But, but it's good to be a cat herder. 

Jeremy: [00:19:12] Yeah, 

Zach: [00:19:13] I want to, so when I was reading, you know, the, the first part of this book, you, you, I mean, you spoke about it earlier a little bit, but you know, discovering our truths and, um, you know, we got to think deeply and it's not about, you know, just the next, how to guide it's it's getting deep down and underneath.

And maybe the answer to this is go buy the book and read it. But yeah. What are some things that people could do to really get underneath and find out what those deep truths are? How do you get there? Because I spent my life running from that. 

Gary John Bishop: [00:19:44] Yeah. I mean, you're, you're living it. So we, we love our lives. Like they're circumstantial.

So the problems I'm having the college or the problems I'm having at work or the problems I'm having in a relationship or. But if you've never asked yourself, like, well, why the fuck did I go to college? Like what? What's guiding me? What shit, why did I choose that subject? Why did I get an investor? Like, what was that really?

But we're also coming from. You know, like how come I get upset by that? And not that, and rather than just saying shit, like, well, I'm just being myself, which is the biggest cop out you'll ever hear in your fucking life. Um, that's like, that's like the hidden language of, it's not my fault, you know? Um, so, but, but if I started, if I started to kind of get interested, like one of the things that I've done with people over time, and I've said, you know, like, why did you choose that subject in college?

And once you peel back all his shit, they thought that that was the thing they could do. Right. So that would already at some kind of bar, right. At 18 or 19 or whatever already, they're already at some level, like, how come you weren't I newer scientist or some shit like that? Uh, you know, I never did that.

I never, you know, I didn't get those grades or like, I know I'm coming. Okay. So why, why not? You know? Um, and so what I discovered, I'll give you an example for myself. I never went to coach, right? I've never been in college other than, you know, to visit people that I knew there. Um, but, but never to get educated.

And if you'd asked me when I was 16 and 17, am I going to college? And what I said now, and if you'd said to me, well, why not? I'll say. I don't want to go to coach. I want to go get a job and make money, but, and that, and for me at that time, that was the truth because I'd never gone under me. How I ended up there had never went well, how did I, why did that become my option and not that right?

Why, how come I never. Ran off and became a fucking, I don't know, an act or something. Right. What come on about that. Something like that. Well, because somewhere in the back of my mind, I didn't think I could do that. Right. And then the more they investigated it as an adult, there isn't another one in college.

When I eventually called myself the truth, which was well, and in my thirties, when I told myself the truth and the truth was, I didn't think I was 


Now at the age of 16 or 17, I was bully shipper. Smart enough  yeah, but that wasn't the truth. And so when I uncovered that for myself as an adult mind, it was like, Oh my gosh.

Like my whole life was based on a belief that I had that I, and at that point it was like, I don't even know if that's true, but I believe that I like, I believe it in my heart of hearts. And that's the problem of your beliefs? Like people, somethings talk of itself, limiting beliefs. You don't know yours.

Cause if you saw something as a self limiting belief, you would no longer believe it. 

Yep. Cause 

you've uncovered, right? Oh like shit. It's one of those things. Um, when, when you have a self-limiting belief, it is shaping address and you don't see it. So I invite people like starting realize, like you're not functioning in a vacuum.

You're being guided and shaped by something that you're, that you're probably either you don't understand because you've never investigated it or you've investigated them. You haven't really gone in and, and, and, and until what, until such a way. And here's when I think, you know what I think, you know, what, when you make sense to you 



you make sense and you're like, well, fucking guy. Right. Like all the shit that sound like little fucking given who I am. Yeah. Right. And even the crappy stuff, like, well, given the way I'm wired and then like, even when you don't need a most negative state, you're like, well, this is part of the wiring.

This makes sense. This isn't circumstantial. That's just the way this thing goes. When life goes a certain way or at least I think life goes a certain way. The greatest freedom you'll ever get in your life is when you finally come to terms with you. Right. I think there's a quote from ed camo that I have in this book.

Um, what he says, mine is the only species that lives in complete denial of who he really is.

See smart people are like pile and compounds, but he's fucking genius. 

Jeremy: [00:24:53] Uh, you, if I can bug you with one more, you had a quote in here that rang true for me. Um, 

Gary John Bishop: [00:24:59] uh, 

Jeremy: [00:25:00] on the, on the topic of loss. Um, and I can't find the page right now in front of me, but. Uh, so many people are experiencing some kind of a loss right now with COVID, they've lost a loved one.

There's an election coming up. They're about to lose the country. They think that it is whatever. Um, so a lot of people are, are kind of grieving what was, because life has changed so much and they're, they're grieving what was supposed to be, which clearly was not supposed to be because here we are. 


How can, how can we use wisdoms to sort of guide us through what is this horrible loss that we're all feeling on some level? 

Gary John Bishop: [00:25:36] Yeah. So loss can be described in lots of ways of like the physical realm, right. When somebody dies in a pet died or something, and those, the tangible realm of things like objects and possessions.

Yeah. And then there's the intangible like, like love, right? Which is, I cannot intangible. Or self-confidence is an intangible, but it's a loss nonetheless. And ultimately if you take away all that kind of stuff, that kind of percolates when you're in the experience of love and Noah's situation, you'll see that loss is really, um, the ending of a future that you had thought was happening.

Oh, it's the end of some future that you had in mind. So even when somebody dies at a pet dies, Somewhere in the back of your mind, this was gone to continue, right. Or, or you get fired or the business school is not, or, you know, whatever the thing may be, somebody walks out in your relationship. It's not so much the loss of what was right, because we're constantly losing what was, it's constantly gone.

Right? Like yesterday's gone in an argument. All you want is gone. But what keeps us kinda going as human beings as the promise of the future? Yeah. Like it's the, it's the, it's the little bit of hope that's gonna turn out, right. That I'm going to turn out. This is going to turn out that we're gonna turn out.

That, you know, I'll wake up and I'm 65 and I've got the same body I had. Mom's 25. Like I hope one of these days, I fucking turns out I don't want to happen if I don't take the action, but nonetheless, right. So, so it's all about the future and Lawrence is all about the future. And so I invite people to get what the future is.

It's completely uncertain, completely devoid of fantasy does nothing that then it's all just a fucking massive blank. And that if you start, you understand, like you have this. Number one when it comes to loss to allow yourself the experience of what, so, whatever it's been has been a lot of yourself that experience don't resist that, especially, let's say in this time of pandemic, there was a lot of people in this really shitty place right now in the place that end is how do I get less to feel the same way that, that, that, 

Jeremy: [00:27:58] yup.

Gary John Bishop: [00:28:00] And you're done. You're fucking toast. Cause it's not gonna happen. Right. It's like standing in a desert and complaining to your feet and I'll get wet because you used to sound in a rebel. Like it's, 

it's a fucking desert, 

right? It's a different thing now. Right. And people might say, well, I'm going to dazzle.

That's fucking useless. No, there are people who live in the desert. They find opportunity. There's opportunity happening there. You're just not seeing it because you're obsessed by the level. 

Jeremy: [00:28:24] Yeah. 

Gary John Bishop: [00:28:25] Yeah. And that's where we find yourself really like grinding up against it is we're trying to make sense of this through the lens of that.

Yeah. And they're not the same, you're in a different world. It's a different paradigm. It's, there's different rules not, and you might not like these rules, you might've preferred the old rules. You might've liked the way it was. And this is how it is. And what you've got to do is learn to dance in this.

And that's what I really invite people again, is you have this brilliant ability, by the way, a brilliant ability for dancing into chaos, like fucking brilliant. And you've always had, and that, if you just said, if you just kind of stand up to that, like, you know what, I will work this out and you will, and you do.

And in fact, you're currently doing, you're currently working. But you keep revisiting that idea that it's supposed to be some other way. The reality is this is a generational shift. What I miss a big one and it's consistent with other big generational shifts, like, like, like nine 11 or the Vietnam war or the second world war.

These were big generational shifts. This is one. Is this. Whole idea and dammit like, Oh, wow, like we're getting confronted by something. That's going to force us to look at life. Definitely does you can't, you don't come back. You don't go back to the way it was. You have to forge your way in, in the future and dance with whatever you're getting presented with.

And that's the case with everything. Like, by the way, it doesn't matter where as if you, if you move to fucking Idaho, you'll have to dance without reality. I 

Jeremy: [00:30:07] don't want to dance in Idaho. 

Gary John Bishop: [00:30:10] Lots of good titles. 

Jeremy: [00:30:12] Uh, Gary, I think, I think you're my favorite guest. I love having you on. I laugh, uh, like I don't with anybody else.

It's just so much fun. Thank you so much for your time for your work. It really means a lot. And, uh, and good luck with this one. And we'll talk again on the next one. 

Gary John Bishop: [00:30:25] All right, you're welcome you guys in as above, but again, great talking to you guys and. Please get yourself a new fucking your guitar.


Jeremy: [00:30:37] for that. Take care, man. Thanks Gary.

Zach: [00:30:54] All right, dude, you're going to have to get uncomfortable and get rid of that guitar because he's giving you shit about it. 

Jeremy: [00:30:59] Yeah. The second time he's been on the show now and completely busted my balls about my, uh, my cheap guitar that literally, uh, you can't see this because this is not a video podcast, but.

The guitar is hanging in the same spot. It was when we talked to him last time and I haven't touched it since. So there's really no point in being there. I don't understand why I even keep it on my wall. 

Zach: [00:31:22] Well guess what, if you do have to pack your house up and move sometime, it's a good opportunity to get rid of it.

Jeremy: [00:31:28] It's true. So, yeah, and, and that, you know, speaking of that, getting uncomfortable, so much of what everyone in the world is going through right now. Uh, we are, uh, I've mentioned a few times that we're kind of considering all of our options and one of them right now is, uh, there's some, some places up in British Columbia that we're looking at moving and it's, uh, it's talk about uncomfortable.

I mean, we are, we are considering buying homes in a place in a part of the world where I've never been, never spent any time in, uh, in a country that I've spent, you know, collectively a few days in, but for the longest time I've spent my life making it work. When we bought our house, it was like, Oh, it's a small house.

And we don't plan on having kids. But if we do, we could make it work. We've been doing that, but it's getting harder and harder to make it work largely for simple things. Again, our house is small, our kids, as it turns out, they keep getting bigger. Despite our best efforts. So we're kind of outgrowing this place, the, the part of the world where we live here in King County, the COVID numbers are spiking again and things you're getting out of control, the civil unrest.

You know, this is not a Seattle thing. This is just in general, how, how everyone has like gone to their corners and, and pick their sides and is willing to battle even family over political ideology. There's just so much that I feel like I don't know that I can keep making it work. And so. That's where, you know, I could do what I would have done before reading this book and go, well, let's wait this out.

Let's see how bad it gets. Let's hopefully the right time will come along. The right thing will present itself, or it can just take some action and do something. And so that's why we're looking at this drastic move, because moving to another part of this state, doesn't help me moving to a bigger house.

Doesn't resolve a lot of the bigger sort of systemic issues. That I think are cultural and it's, this is not, you know, slamming one political party or another, this has been going on for a long time and it's getting worse and worse, um, from, from where I'm sitting. And so that's why I'm now wrestling with getting really uncomfortable and, and doing this kind of a move and doing things like it's so interesting when, when you do, I don't know, maybe you guys went through this because you guys just uprooted and moved across the country recently, but like, I sit here in my house and I, and I miss it.

I miss my neighborhood, my, my, really my 2019 life here. Um, there's so much that I'm grieving about the future that was supposed to happen. And, uh, and because that's now not a reality, I, I grieve that and I cry about the things that are not going to be able to happen. Like it's, it's so uncomfortable to make a decision, to leave a place that you love on the off chance that something else might be better.

And so, I don't know, you guys, you guys were sort of forced to move because of family issues, but did you go through any of that? Did you feel like I, this is something I have to do, not something I want to do. And that, that sort of makes it more painful. 

Zach: [00:34:25] Yeah. So it was something we had to do. It wasn't necessarily something we wanted to do now that we're back.

We're, you know, it's been over a year now, almost two years for me, but. The, you know, we're, we're okay with it now. And there was a long period of time where, you know, I, I missed Seattle a lot, but prior to moving, it was interesting for me because I left six months before my family and I was, you know, I was gone.

So I had double grief. I missed my family. I was already gone, but I kept going back, seeing everyone, knowing that, you know, the time was short. So, um, Yeah, there was a lot of grief. There was a lot of sadness, but at the same time, like I was in a new job, I was, you know, pouring everything I could into that.

So I was really busy and we were trying to sell the house. I don't think it was until it was the day that we flew out of Seattle on one way. Tickets. Yeah. When it was done, where. The grief hit me the hardest. And I really started to feel about missing the future things that wouldn't happen anymore. 

Jeremy: [00:35:36] Yeah.

Yeah. I keep fast forwarding to loading the kids up in the car for the one way trip across the border. Like, you know, we're planning to make several trips and go check out the area and do all these things that are going to be really fun. But they're at this point is going to come a day when it's time to say goodbye to two effectively, the only house my kids have ever known, they've grown up.

And, and, you know, we live next to this beautiful Lake where they've spent summers just swimming and playing with friends and, you know, and I don't want them to not have that, but they already don't have that because of the way the world is like so much. So many of the benefits of, of staying where we are only apply to a pre COVID world.

And so not that not that Canada is completely free of it, but you know, the places we're looking it's, it's much lower and far less of a risk. And all of the other things that add up to that, um, to that decision, make it kind of hard not to try. And this is one of those cases where, and I tell my kids this all the time, you're going to regret the things you didn't do more than the things you did.

And if we, if we didn't try something like right now, we have an idea where life could be better. It could be a little simpler, it could be a little slower, it could be a lot safer. And if we don't try and worst case scenario happens, you know, one of us gets sick. Something bad happens at school when they go back, you know, whatever.

I would always think, God, why didn't we try. Where if, if we go up there and we get hit by a bus, you know, like, well, we tried, like I, I'm not, I wouldn't regret something bad happening by taking action rather than nothing happening by not taking action. And so this book, especially just since we've gotten it in the last couple of weeks has been really helpful and sort of sorting out my feelings on this because I think I'm pretty good at listening to my intuition when I, when I can shut the fuck up for a minute and listen to my inner voice, I can usually hear a path.

And I haven't been able to on this one. And now the voice that keeps ringing in my ear is Gary with his, with his accent, screaming at me, you just got to fucking do something. And so this is the thing I can do. And so that's what I'm, uh, that's what I'm attempting to do with this. And. 

Zach: [00:37:50] He's gotta be tickled pink to hear you say that his voice is in your head now.


Jeremy: [00:37:54] Yeah. Constantly. I just keep hearing him yelling at me all the time. 

Zach: [00:37:58] Um, at least he's not talking about the guitar the whole time, 

Jeremy: [00:38:01] not the whole time, but he does make every time I see that now, do I hear him going? I'll get rid of that fucking guitar. Um, but, but yeah, it's, you know, this is, this is about as uncomfortable as I, as I think it gets is when you are sort of forced to move.

Well, forced to move, but, but for us to just kind of reprogram your entire life. So, um, you know, that's, that's what I'm doing uncomfortable. 

Zach: [00:38:25] Yeah. So I've got two therapist stories here. One is, um, I really loved my therapist in Seattle. I miss the fact that I can't see her anymore, but, um, you know, she called me out one day because I was telling her about the latest greatest, you know, Mind hack thing that I was trying.

And, um, and she, she was like, so 

what, what, what are you trying to 

fix? Like with all of these things that you're trying? Cause I, I was always trying, you know, I'll do this new time management thing. I'll do this new thing over here. I'll uh, you know, meditate like this I'll do this. And it was just always something new.

And she's like, what is it that you're trying to solve? And I was like, pin drop. Yeah. Couldn't answer her. I was like, I don't know. I'm just, just looking for solutions and she's like, you're looking for solutions. Do you don't even know what the problem is? Yep. And that hit me pretty hard. And it was, um, it was that comment that I had to go in and do a deep dive like Gary was talking about and 

figure out.

What the underlying problem was, what was I trying to fix? What was the issue that I was trying to address? Because I had no idea and getting there 

was, Oh 

God, it was so uncomfortable. Like to the point where I like everything that I was, was gone and I had to, um, get rid of the ego and, and deal with this really nasty version of myself that I didn't want to look at.

But it was that uncomfortable. It was getting that uncomfortable. That allowed me to make the improvements to fix the problem, to put the right time management solution in place, because I knew what I was actually trying to address. 

Jeremy: [00:40:13] I was going to say, because you still take on a lot of, uh, different.

Efforts strategies plans to, to improve your life in different ways. So do you do feel like they're more targeted now? You know, it's not just an effort of, Oh, that sounds interesting. Let's, let's throw some energy at that. It's you see a way it connects to the deeper issue that you're probably, I imagine just because you're human beings still working on 

Zach: [00:40:40] yeah.

Most of the time. Every now and again, I have to check myself because I'll spend four, four, six weeks, like trying new things. Right. And, and I'll stop. And I'll go back to that question of what problem am I trying to address here? And I have to go dig a little bit deeper, but you know, I generally know what my deep dark issues are.

You know, I suffer from great anxiety, perfectionism. I can never please my father. So like I constantly try and please authority figures, right? It's so I try and make myself better based on that. And it's, that's really not important to please authority figures. Um, so I do have to check myself occasionally, but for the most part.

I can take whatever I'm trying this week and tie it back to like that deep, underlying issue. 

Jeremy: [00:41:29] It's funny, you mentioned the data issues and one that came up for me last night. Actually it was, I was doing a little meditating and kind of thinking about what, what my, why is, you know, what, what drives me to do the things I do and to live the way I do.

And one moment has always kind of echoed in the background that I've never really sat with until last night. And one was, um, when my parents split up. I remember that I could like visualize a drawing, which, you know, I was 12. So I should've been able to draw better than the picture I had in my head, but, but I had this visualization of this circle and the house with me and my brothers in it with my mom and my dad on the outside and sort of thinking that that was a temporary thing.

Like this was a bubble that we were in for awhile. And then I just had to get through that until the bubble popped and everything went back to normal. I've sort of carried that with me and it sort of occurred to me that that's kind of what I've been doing with all of the problems that I'm now trying to solve with this move is that I've been waiting for things to just get back to normal.

I've been waiting for, well, once this all blows over, then I'll, I'll dive back into meditating regularly. I'll exercise more. I'll eat like I'll, I'll get things back on track. Once this gets back to normal, here we are seven months later. And early on at a really good job of going like, Oh, this is my opportunity.

I'm home more. There's there's things I can do. I can really manage my time, my own way, but that sort of faded into the background. And I've just, I've fallen back into this, this pit of, well, once this blows over, you'll be fine. But again, I can sit here and wait for it to maybe blow over or it'll blow right by me.

In the meantime, I'm sitting here with, you know, w with my hands in my lap going, I don't know what to do. So that's again, where I just felt like this is more evidence that I need to take, whatever action seems to make the most sense. And right now moving, is it so, you know, it's, it's so interesting, those, those little things that haunt us, our entire lives, that until we give them room to breathe and, and deal with them, they affect every decision we make.

Zach: [00:43:36] Yeah. And you brought up another point too, where I feel like I've gotten too comfortable again. So like in the beginning, Of quarantine. I was, I'm going to lose weight. I'm going to do all this stuff I'm going to, but then I'm home all the time. And this is my comfort zone. Like this is my bubble. Yep. And.

It reminded me of, of the second therapist story that I had where, you know, I, I was complaining to her. I was like, I know I have all these issues and I know I need to change them. I just can't do anything about them. Like, I can't bring myself to do anything. And she was like, well, you're too comfortable.

You're not, you know, you're, you're not uncomfortable enough to take action on this. And you brought up a really good point. Cause that brought me to that story and to where I am right now, because. When I'm at home when I don't have to worry about going out and seeing people like, I don't give a shit, what I look like, you know, I don't care if my clothes don't fit right.

Because I'm in my workout shorts all day. Um, you know, all of those things, I I'm so comfortable at home. My relationship with the pantry, super comfortable with that. It's, you know, it's a little much at times, but I'm so comfortable at home. That I'm not doing the things that I need to do to keep myself healthy, because I'm so comfortable.

Jeremy: [00:44:59] I, 


I mean, you literally just took the thoughts out of my head. I've been wearing workout shorts and oversized t-shirts for seven months. And in the last couple of days, I've had I say opportunities. I'm going to say it was forced out of my house a couple of times and had to like actually get dressed.

And I put on my skinny jeans and I was like, Oh, I'm, I'm pushing it. This is, I mean, they still fit. But it's getting close. It's time to time to do something 

Zach: [00:45:25] off these ribs. Someone's going to get hurt. 

Jeremy: [00:45:27] It's going to, it's going to be a bad scene, 

Gary John Bishop: [00:45:30] so a 

Jeremy: [00:45:31] time to reign it in and get things under control. And you know, and part of it is that I've been experimenting with changing up my diet and I haven't been doing the things I need to do to make sure that that, that, uh, doesn't go the way that it is currently trending.

Again, time to take action and stop sitting here thinking, Oh, I should, I should eat different. Oh, I should mix thing. Oh, I should make sure I work out every day. Time to just do it, just stop the, the words and move the body. 

Zach: [00:45:58] I took action today. I actually had to go into work, so I was wearing jeans. I got home at like 10 o'clock.

And I like sat in my home office, wearing jeans for like two hours. And finally, I was like, 

this is bullshit. This is so uncomfortable. Why am I still wearing jeans? 

And I got up, I went and put my gym shorts back on. 

Took action. That's too 


I yelled it out in the hallway and Torah heard me and I just heard her like laughing down the stairs.

I was like, why am I still wearing jeans? 

Jeremy: [00:46:32] Well, and it's funny too, we're talking about like, you know, none of us has had a haircut in seven months and we're trying to get somebody to come to our house and cut our hair outside and all this. And part of me is just like, why 

just with you people all day, what difference does it mean.

All right. So as we get ready to get out of here, just some, some sort of final takeaways. Uh, one Zach, we were talking about this a little, a little bit ago. Just sort of our, our relationship with failure. 

Zach: [00:46:58] Yeah. I've, I've had a really rough one with that. I, my dad used to say to me, um, whenever he asked me to do something or I had to do something he would say, and I would do it 

and I would do 

it wrong and he would come back and say, if you just did it right the first time.

You wouldn't have to do it twice. And that has stuck with me for years that I have to do it right. The first time there is no, there's no ability to fail. Like whatever it is, I have to do it right. The first time. 

Jeremy: [00:47:27] Right. The other version of that, if you don't have, right. If you don't have time to do it right, the first time, you certainly don't have time to do it over again.

Zach: [00:47:35] Exactly. Um, but that led to a lot of my perfectionism and. Um, and procrastination, right. Because if I can not do something perfect, I just won't do it. Yup. Um, so th that's a big problem, but there's, you know, there's a line in, in Gary's new book, um, you know, has fundamental number two in chapter 10, or it says, I don't love failure, but I'm not afraid of it either.

And I just loved that 

part because I've had such a really. Interesting relationship with failure. It was hardwired in me that you cannot fail. So I wouldn't try if I knew I was going to fail, but I begrudgingly accepted the fact that, you know, failure is part of growing and while I'm okay with it now, as part of the process of me getting to the next place, I'm not okay with it by itself.

Right. So if I fail and I don't do anything about it, That's a bad thing. If I fail, I learn a lesson, I do something better the next time. That's where it's. Okay. You have to make failure part of the process as, as opposed to it just being a point in time of on the failure. So I really liked that part of the book and it really resonated.

Jeremy: [00:48:52] And within that, again, going back to the point of doing something, you automatically fail. If you don't do anything, if you just sit there and just wait for life to happen to you. It's automatically going to fail because you're not going to grow. You're not going to have a lot of the experiences you would have.

If you decide to take the action on whatever that thing is that keeps spinning in your head. It's not going to, you're not going to, will it into existence thinking about it, envisioning it, hoping that it happens, sets you on the path, but without the action. And, and this is again a relatively new thing for me, because I have read so many books.

It's like, Oh, if you just. If you just imagine, you know, that you're going to make all this money and imagine the dream home and imagine the perfect job, it will come to you. The universe will, will it to no, it fucking won't, but it will put me in the right mindset to go. These are now the steps I need to take to make that imagination, that vision a reality.

So it is both without thinking it, without imagining that world that you want to live in without creating it in your head, it's gonna be a hell of a lot harder to find. But you're as sure as shit not going to find it. If you don't actually do something, it's funny, as you 

Zach: [00:50:01] were talking through that, all I could think of was the song freewill by 

Jeremy: [00:50:05] rush.

You're a bigger rush fan than I am 

Zach: [00:50:09] big enough. I had to look up the lyrics cause I knew I knew the general idea of the line, but I couldn't remember the exact words, but um, if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. 

Jeremy: [00:50:19] Yeah, that's exactly. 

Zach: [00:50:22] Uh, and it's a good song though. 

Gary John Bishop: [00:50:24] Ah, 

Jeremy: [00:50:26] for me, every rush song, when it comes on, I'm like, Oh, this rocks, what is this?

And then, uh, again, not a fan, forget the singer's name, but he starts singing and I'm like, Oh, nevermind. All right. Gonna wrap things up there. A quick shout out to our sponsor, the athletic brewing company. I don't know if you've had this by the way, Zach. Uh, when I went on my little bike ride, I picked up the, uh, the all out.

I would open the fridge, but it hurts too much. I'm pretty sure it's called all out. It's their dark, like their, like their stout its kind of a darker beer. It's delicious. It's a wonderful beer for this time of year, especially so, and by the way, non alcoholic, so drink as many as you like. They're delicious.

Thank you to athletic brewing for sponsoring us. Thank you to Gary, John Bishop for appearing on the show again at this rate, he'll have another book out in about three or four weeks and we'll have him on again, but we'll see. So thank you to him for being on. And thank you to you for signing up for our newsletter.

You can go to our website right now and sign up there. That is where we take the extra copies that they send us of these books and ship them out to you. We do random drawings for, um, For the various books and prizes that we have to give away. So if you've not done that, please go to our website and sign up for the newsletter.

Oh. And visit our little merchandise shop. If, uh, if you like our logo, as much as you do, you want to wear it on your body? Click the link on our website to buy any of our fancy, uh, hoodies and hats and mugs and stuff with our, with our fancy logo on it. We like it. We think you will too. And of course follow us on whatever social media platform you can find us on.

That's going to do it for us for this week. We will be back next week with a show that I know Zach, you are chomping at the bit to get this one out. Our chat with Louie Gravance. 

Zach: [00:52:01] Yeah. I can't wait. I for the last two episodes, like we've, we I've, I've started to prep to record. And both times I thought we were prepping the record, uh, the, the F the next episode, um, we're going to talk to Louie Grovonce.

The author of service has a super power. Um, you know, he used to work at Disney, so right there, I'm already hooked 

right to Disney nerds. 

Yeah. But he, but he, you know, the book that he has is, is, um, again, Super impactful, not just, you know, for career, but for personal life. And, you know, we got, uh, an opportunity to talk to him.

So I'm, I'm looking forward to our next episode. Really fun interview, really bad audio quality on my part, but you know what he forgave us. 

Jeremy: [00:52:46] He's often referred to as the guy that can make Disney service concepts work outside of Disney. Anybody that can do that is a magician. So a really fun conversation with him.

I w again, one of those guys we could have talked to all day long. We have that, that conversation for you next week at thefitness.com. Thank you so much for listening for subscribing and for being part of our little community, we will talk to you again next week at the fitmess.com. 

Zach: [00:53:09] See everyone. 

Jeremy: [00:53:09] We know this podcast is amazing 

and does not seem to lack anything, 

but we do need a legal disclaimer 

and Zach are not doctors.

They do not 

play them on the internet. And even if they did play them on the internet, 

they would be really bad at it. 

Please consult your physician prior to implementing any changes that you heard on this podcast, pollution or assumes that Jeremy and Zach do not know what they are talking about and that you will do your own research on the topics talked about on this podcast.


Gary John BishopProfile Photo

Gary John Bishop


Gary John Bishop began his life journey in Glasgow, Scotland. The grit and wit of his early life have contributed to his irreverent, tough-love, in-your-face approach to personal growth. The one-time Senior Program Director to one of the world's biggest personal and professional development companies, Gary has created the kind of no-frills message that cuts through the fog of people's lives to transform the real issues that consume and anchor them to their self limiting behaviors and beliefs.

As one of the leading Personal Development experts around with a reputation that has impacted millions of people worldwide, his "Urban Philosophy" approach represents a new wave of personal empowerment and life mastery that has caused miraculous results for people in the quality and performance of their lives.